Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Wisher1000]

Calf Manna would make them taste like licorice! Have you ever smelled it?

 

[finnfur]

Observation: The local feed mill has layer pellets 16% at $3.00/50 less than the the Southern states 20% Rock n rooster. So thrifty me says I think I'll save some money.
So I buy 3 bags and start mixing it daily about 50% with Rock n Rooster . I use pellets because they waste very little . Well after about a week of this new feed mix I started noticing
a lot of pellets under the feeder in both coops. So I started looking closer and the cheaper feed has a slight green hue coloring to it and the Rock n roster has a slight red tint.
Guess what was 90% under the feeder . Yep the cheaper feed ? I thought I read chickens couldn't taste ?
So I am back to all Rock n rooster because I wasn't really saving money and they were smarter than I was giving them credit for.

 

[bnjrob]

Observation: The local feed mill has layer pellets 16% at $3.00/50 less than the the Southern states 20% Rock n rooster. So thrifty me says I think I'll save some money.
So I buy 3 bags and start mixing it daily about 50% with Rock n Rooster . I use pellets because they waste very little . Well after about a week of this new feed mix I started noticing
a lot of pellets under the feeder in both coops. So I started looking closer and the cheaper feed has a slight green hue coloring to it and the Rock n roster has a slight red tint.
Guess what was 90% under the feeder . Yep the cheaper feed ? I thought I read chickens couldn't taste ?
So I am back to all Rock n rooster because I wasn't really saving money and they were smarter than I was giving them credit for.

LOL. They sure will pick out what they like. Ours will pick out what they want when I give them scratch. To get them to eat whole corn or oats, I have to give it to them without any other grains, because they won't eat whole corn kernels or whole oats if they have a choice of something else in the mix. And asking some of them to eat pellets...they'll go hungry before they eat pellets because they equate pellets with the wood horse stall pellets. I actually found some articles years ago on giving chickens a buffet of different grains, all in separate bins, and the study said that they would eat what they wanted of each grain and most of the chickens would choose the correct combination and amount of the different grains for what they needed to keep themselves healthy.

 

[LindaB220]

Thank you everyone for the fine info. My birds didn't seem to be doing well on 16%. I mean they were maintaining but not thriving. Then I read that some of these heritage large fowl do better on 22 to 26% feeds. . So I switched them to better levels of protein and they did much better. They did best on Cargill's Agway Meat Bird. Finally put on more weight and their feathers looked great. Technically, historically, the Sussex is a meat bird. The Light Sussex, a variety which was a meat bird bred to lay more eggs than the other varieties. My cocks run with my hens so the higher calcium with the layer feed won't work. Too much for the cocks. I need to keep the calcium to no higher than 1.4. Right now they are doing ok on the S. States Meat Maker. I called Cargill and got Naturewise. Seems their sister product to the Agway Meat Bird the Turkey product. I have never gone as high as 26 or 28 percent with my birds.
The artic blast is finally past after 8 days of very bitter cold. I don't feed my birds corn during egg laying season. I was warned it would make them fat and decrease egg production. Maybe I will try the Calf Manna. Funny, my birds seem to do best with feeds that have molasses in them. Like the Cargill products.
I wonder what that means?
Thanks,
Karen

I make my fermented feed in a 5 gallon bucket. I add 1/3 - 1/2 cup molasses to my 1/2 c EM-1 to get the base. Stir in water and start adding layer or grower. Whatever you want. I like to soak whole oats for a few days and then add to the mix to ferment it. If it needs more protein I add gamebird or catfish feed. I like to keep it at 20% The pullets are just getting to the POL stage so I'll incorporate layer into it. BOSS for treats.

Edited to add: I forgot that this is what I was using. Now that they are POL I'll try to keep it at the 17% level. Phased out the catfish feed already.

 

[Lacy Blues]

LOL. They sure will pick out what they like. Ours will pick out what they want when I give them scratch. To get them to eat whole corn or oats, I have to give it to them without any other grains, because they won't eat whole corn kernels or whole oats if they have a choice of something else in the mix. And asking some of them to eat pellets...they'll go hungry before they eat pellets because they equate pellets with the wood horse stall pellets. I actually found some articles years ago on giving chickens a buffet of different grains, all in separate bins, and the study said that they would eat what they wanted of each grain and most of the chickens would choose the correct combination and amount of the different grains for what they needed to keep themselves healthy.

I remember reading that study too.

However, I don't believe it for a second. I ferment my feed. I mix gamebird grower and flock raiser 50/50 and throw in a little BOSS and rolled barley for texture and interest. My older hens pick out just the whole grains so I cut the amount of grains in half. They do the same thing. So, I keep reducing the amount of food I give them until they're eating everything. Once they start this, they eat heartily for a few weeks and then they start the grain-picking again. We go round and round this way.

If left to their own devices, my birds would choose the foods that they liked the most and eat themselves into malnutrition.

Now, if I had wonderfully green forage plus the insects that come with it, that type of system might work.

In this situation though, not so much.

 

[chickadoodles]

Lacy I agree with you completely! I was mixing boss, oats, wheat and turkey delight in my feed and they were all picking out what they wanted and left the feed in the feeder.
So I quit mixing it in the feed. I still give them a mix of the grains but just a handful per pen so they will still eat their feed.

 

[bnjrob]

I remember reading that study too.

However, I don't believe it for a second. I ferment my feed. I mix gamebird grower and flock raiser 50/50 and throw in a little BOSS and rolled barley for texture and interest. My older hens pick out just the whole grains so I cut the amount of grains in half. They do the same thing. So, I keep reducing the amount of food I give them until they're eating everything. Once they start this, they eat heartily for a few weeks and then they start the grain-picking again. We go round and round this way.

If left to their own devices, my birds would choose the foods that they liked the most and eat themselves into malnutrition.

Now, if I had wonderfully green forage plus the insects that come with it, that type of system might work.

In this situation though, not so much.

Yes, you do have an environmental issue living in a desert region. I still am trying to improve the forage in our pasture, it's not horrible but could be better. I had planted some cover crops in autumn and the rodents made off with the seeds. But since the addition of outdoor cats, the rodent population in the pasture is going down, since the cats are free to chase the rodents a lot farther than the chickens are able to chase them down. Am working toward turning the non-breeder quality birds into a completely unsupervised free range flock later this year and am interested to see if their eating habits change. A longer term goal is to start growing grains along with other non grain type cover crops in our pasture to use for feed.

 

[ronott1]

Calf Manna would make them taste like licorice! Have you ever smelled it?

Calf Manna does smell good!



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[3riverschick]

Last fall during molting I used Nutrena feather fixer. It is seventeen percent protein but has other things added to it. Purina has re formulated their feed and have added pro biotics and amino acids. for both layeena and flock raiser. My Heritage breeds to very well on both and the feather fixer was amazing. It did what it was supposed to for the poor molting chickens.

Check into the labels on the feed and the meat bird feed likely has ingredients in it that are making the big difference. Too much focus on protein can be a problem. Some give their chickens cat fish feed, cat food and etc. to increase protein and that is not very good for the chickens.

HI Ron.
I figure these companies spent millions developing these feeds. If I find the right formulation, I should be able to maintain my birds well without a lot of fancy extras.
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Well, I went to down to Agway today and special ordered the Agway Meatbird made by Cargill. They make more money on the Southern States Meatbird so don't stock the Agway which is sister product to Naturewise Meat Bird.
About 12 years ago, after 4 years research, I developed a neonate protocol for my collie puppies. The object was to get the G.I. tract up and running properly as fast as possible after birth This would allow the neonate to absorb and make available the extra supplements I was giving them to provide their body systems with the best nutrients possible to help create the best foundation possible on which their immune systems could finish developing. It worked great. The puppies are 10 years old now and the ones I have followed have quality lives and accomplishments.
When I moved to poultry I brought the same mind set with me presuming a neonate is a neonate is a neonate. However, other than the science of feeding grit and sprouting seeds and providing yogurt and/or Poultry Nutri-Drench, I had not found a unified field of study on the subject of the developing chick gut. Until this week.
Now we know that when a chicken eats a meal the feed can initiate an inflammatory response in the gut. That the response can vary depending on the "richness" of the feed. Being higher with "richer" feed formulas. If the chick's gut cannot cope with the inflammatory issue, the gut can become compromised, creating an opportunity for pathogens to take up residence. Enter the broiler chicken. Fed high protein feeds. And formerly fed antibiotics to deal with any pathogens issues from an inflamed chicken gut. Now we cannot use the antibiotics any more. What to do?
Apparently recent research shows they feel the answer is to use specialized strains of probiotics; or a combination formula of amino acids ( or both?), fed to the chicks in the first few days of life to help the chick's gut get up and running properly as soon as possible. Research studies have showed these supplementations provide lifelong health advantages for the chickens. So perhaps a neonate is a neonate is a neonate after all. Hum.
From what I have read so far, the amino acid formula seems to be used with the feed to help release more of the nutrients from the feed. One example is using the formula with feeds containing corn to help release more of the nutrients. The probiotics seem to be used as expected to help establish proper flora in the chick's gut as soon as possible after hatch.
So now I am thinking I can finally do more research and hopefully come up with a similar program of the collie pups for my chicks. Time will tell.
Now I need to get with some researchers and the product's tech people. Hopefully when I am finished I will have a simple, not too expensive program incorporating grit, sprouted seed, probiotic formula of some kind; amino acid formula of some kind; and a quality feed for a meat breed from hatch thru their whole life. This will be fun. I love this stuff.
Best,
Karen.