Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Sunflowergirl]

Great question! I'll ask Christine!

Thank you! I want to be able to tell if my chickens are at proper weights at the ages listed!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Thank you! I want to be able to tell if my chickens are at proper weights at the ages listed!

Yeah ... I've been stressing over that a bit myself! Looking into historical meat industry charts and stuff. The Delaware has a lot of history to live up to. I'm not to the point of culling for rate of growth yet, but I'd like to know how much work I'll have to do in that area, especially as people keep telling me it is super difficult to improve on that.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

My question is this: 
The weight listed, is it the live weight or the carcass weight??? 

It usually means carcass weight, although the article mainly referred to ages.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

[quote name="LeslieDJoyce" url="/t/849075/heritage-large-fowl-phase-ii/7320#post_15623696 I'm not to the point of culling for rate of growth yet...people keep telling me it is super difficult to improve on that. 
[/quote]

Horse feathers! While one may have difficulty with specific strains lacking in production qualities, rate of growth is a straightforward selection criterium. If you select for it, they will improve. Perhaps your advisors lack experience with production livestock, or perhaps they valued non-utility points to the detriment of their poultry.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Quote:

I'm pretty sure the advice came from experienced poultry people, right here in this thread ... ?

Now I'm wishing I could pull the quotes of who, exactly, has told me that, so I can set you guys up to duke it out.

 

[finnfur]

I'm pretty sure the advice came from experienced poultry people, right here in this thread ... ?

Now I'm wishing I could pull the quotes of who, exactly, has told me that, so I can set you guys up to duke it out.

Well I think you are both correct . Neo is talking about just gaining market size quickly I presume. That you could easily cull for. But you are trying to selectively bleed for SOP and you are putting size as a low priority under what you consider important to breed forward with. In that case and with out doubt on this line of Delaware's it is important to wait for some maturity to show because they change with age and mature slow. And that has been said here before.
May have been Bob's old thread.

 

[bnjrob]

Well I think you are both correct . Neo is talking about just gaining market size quickly I presume. That you could easily cull for. But you are trying to selectively bleed for SOP and you are putting size as a low priority under what you consider important to breed forward with. In that case and with out doubt on this line of Delaware's it is important to wait for some maturity to show because they change with age and mature slow. And that has been said here before.
May have been Bob's old thread.

It's difficult to get all the things at the same time. We are starting to look more at birds that mature faster (lay earlier, get larger faster) but that wasn't our biggest priority when starting out. Our first priorities starting out was mature size (bigger the better) and type. I've found that it is easier to look at everything overall, but then lean in the direction of just one or two traits each year. Once you start getting some uniformity in one area, you can look at placing a little more emphasis on another area that needs work.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Very diplomatic. And accurate.

When I just started with hatchery birds I used to read stuff at BYC about "useless" show birds. Birds with most of the bird bred out of them, except pretty feathers and an ability to behave in a cage. Imagine my surprise when I got the the SOP and started reading the economic characteristics of various breeds.

I sell eggs so I picked Delawares primarily for the promised big eggs in winter and secondarily for the usefulness as meat of the male culls. Now I see I have a lot of work to do in my flock, and pretty much have to prioritize practically everything before egg size or winter laying, including work on the meat qualities.

 

[gjensen]

Yeah ... I've been stressing over that a bit myself! Looking into historical meat industry charts and stuff. The Delaware has a lot of history to live up to. I'm not to the point of culling for rate of growth yet, but I'd like to know how much work I'll have to do in that area, especially as people keep telling me it is super difficult to improve on that.

It is as difficult as your flock lacks variability. The more variability, the faster the progress. If they are all painfully slow to develop, then progress will be painfully slow. If some during the grow out show reasonable rates, then progress can be at a reasonable pace.

There is always some variability within the flock. More in some than others. You will have your slowest and fastest (figuratively speaking), but most will be in between. The amount of variability that I am trying to describe (the distance between the fastest and the slowest) is the range from which you will select. If your fastest is pretty good, then you will be ok moving forward. If after two years, all of your birds have proven to be far from reasonable, then your goal is indeed far off.

Another way to consider their potential is to know the parent stock. In your case, the two strains of breeds used where relatively uniform. How did either perform? Is the potential even there? You would be hard pressed to see reliable results better than the best parent side. Not that you could not, but I am sure that you are like many of us, having limitations. I at least have limitations in the qty. that I can hatch, grow out, and years that I have left to do it.

And the birds are a sum of their parts as the breed is the sum of it's parts. If they are not where they should be on one point, or two points, does that mean they have no value? Certainly not, providing they excel at another point or two. In your breed, there is no perfect line or strain. One may be superior on a single point, and fail miserably at the rest. You are still evaluating them as a whole the same as you are evaluating the status of the breed by evaluating the whole.

Your business is to consider the whole, and prioritize your goals. What do you feel is the most important point right now? What will it require to get them there? Then roll up your sleeves and go to work. Proceed cautiously, always have a safe way out, and go for it. One or two things at a time.

Sometimes traits and/or characteristics have to come from outside the family. The introduction of those traits are the work of breeders.

 

[Wisher1000]

I have noticed that when any individual breeder selects individual birds for breeding, the decision is made according to his/her unique focus. That is why lines are so different, even though they are working off the same standard.

I tend to notice the barring (or lack thereof) on the upper chest/throat area, the comb, and the size of the bird, first. I have to force myself to evaluate all the other points. I have noticed that my friend in Texas always mentions the white earlobes and clear white hackles. Her birds are strong in those areas but not as much in the ones I value. Another, a man that is just getting started, talks about the "concentric rings" that appear when the barring is perfect, and the shape of the tail. I often struggle with which is more important and have to really work at not staying focused on one or two points. I want to concentrate on two traits and ignore all the others, but that is not going to work.

It requires observation and balance and patience and vision. It is a skill, and an instinct, and a labor of love.