Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[bnjrob]

As for feed additives to combat mites, I've just read about one they've tested in France called "PARALICE," but I can't find very good info about what it actually is, beyond "an in-feed patented non medicated mixture of aromatic extracts."

http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-i...novative-approach-tackle-red-t1528/165-p0.htm

The recommendation with the PARALICE is to add it to feed for a few weeks, a few times per year. No egg withdrawal necessary.

This sounds to me like they are adding in herbs/spices/essential oils. Especially since they also reported changes in the birds' demeanor as well. There are herbs/spices/essential oils that help to repel and even kill insects.

I can see several theories with this product. They could have found a combo of things that make the chicken's blood taste gross to the mites, keeping the mites from adequately feeding and reproducing. This is the theory behind feeding garlic to dogs to repel fleas, but it doesn't really work that great. Or they could have simply enhanced the birds' own immune systems with the addition of these herbs, that the birds were able to deal with the mites better.

Personally I use herbs/spices as well as DE in my own chicken houses and it does help with bug control. I also use essential oil mixes, commercial and homemade, with the animals as well as in the garden.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

As long as it doesn't make the eggs/meat taste funny, cause anemia, or make the birds wheeze/sneeze/itch (or me for that matter) herbs and stuff are worth a "why not." But I wouldn't count on herbs or garlic or oils for serious infestations. And if the cost started encroaching on my common sense, then it would get crossed off my "why not" list (so oils are pretty much out of the running, and that's before I consider the smell).

The feed-grade sulfur, which is added to the Feather Fixer as mite control (check the ingredients list and you'll find it right before all the minute supplements), can make shells and egg whites thinner, so only tiny amounts of that are included in the feed (3 lbs per ton). This French PARALICE product calls for more ... I think I read more like 5-6 kilos per ton. I'd really like to know what's in it.

 

[hellbender]

This sounds to me like they are adding in herbs/spices/essential oils. Especially since they also reported changes in the birds' demeanor as well. There are herbs/spices/essential oils that help to repel and even kill insects.

I can see several theories with this product. They could have found a combo of things that make the chicken's blood taste gross to the mites, keeping the mites from adequately feeding and reproducing. This is the theory behind feeding garlic to dogs to repel fleas, but it doesn't really work that great. Or they could have simply enhanced the birds' own immune systems with the addition of these herbs, that the birds were able to deal with the mites better.

Personally I use herbs/spices as well as DE in my own chicken houses and it does help with bug control. I also use essential oil mixes, commercial and homemade, with the animals as well as in the garden.

I know this herbal treatment is tantamount to biblical writings to some but taking the chance on not being politically correct, when I kill/prevent parasites, I go for the 'Big-Bang' Theory. I kill what's there to torment me and my birds and hopefully leave enough residue to kill any residual eggs that might be laying around.

 

[bnjrob]

As long as it doesn't make the eggs/meat taste funny, cause anemia, or make the birds wheeze/sneeze/itch (or me for that matter) it's worth a "why not." But I wouldn't count on it for serious infestations. And if the cost started encroaching on my common sense, then it would get crossed off my "why not" list. My coops are pretty big.

The thing with taking the more natural approach is that you must use it consistently to prevent a serious infestation problem. I think this is where people get messed up because they allow things to get so bad and then they can't figure out why the natural products aren't rapidly fixing the problem like a poison can. And it often takes a multi-pronged approach and you can't just rely on one single thing to fix everything. People are so accustomed to how many poisons work - one application kills everything immediately and the residue keeps on killing for a long time - that they don't keep up with refreshing the natural products they use to make sure the efficacy continues to be good. That's why a lot of folks can't even keep their dog & cat flea problems under control with the current products that are lethal to bugs but safer for the animals, because the products need to be used more than one time per year.

DE takes time to scratch the exoskeletons of the bugs so that they dehydrate and die so it isn't going to immediately get rid of mites or lice on the birds. I put it underneath the litter in the pens that have actual coops and refresh it periodically so that it is present all of the time to scrape up the insects bodies. Drives me crazy every time someone thinks that they are going to use DE for a bad outbreak of something and get immediate results.

The herbs and spices also have to be refreshed periodically to keep their potency to repel bugs. Our roosts are made of cedar to help repel bugs as well. Birds get dustbaths of dirt/sand/DE/sulfur to help them with bug control too. But again, we take a multi-modal approach to all bug control - even when it comes to killing the grasshopper plagues in the garden. And we do things consistently and watch for when we need to refresh everything. That's part of good husbandry and if folks want to use natural treatments, they need to understand this concept. Most don't though. Heck, most people can't even understand why they are supposed to finish the entire course of an antibiotic prescription even though they feel better after just a couple of days on the antibiotics. *eye roll*

 

[hellbender]

The thing with taking the more natural approach is that you must use it consistently to prevent a serious infestation problem. I think this is where people get messed up because they allow things to get so bad and then they can't figure out why the natural products aren't rapidly fixing the problem like a poison can. And it often takes a multi-pronged approach and you can't just rely on one single thing to fix everything. People are so accustomed to how many poisons work - one application kills everything immediately and the residue keeps on killing for a long time - that they don't keep up with refreshing the natural products they use to make sure the efficacy continues to be good. That's why a lot of folks can't even keep their dog & cat flea problems under control with the current products that are lethal to bugs but safer for the animals, because the products need to be used more than one time per year.

DE takes time to scratch the exoskeletons of the bugs so that they dehydrate and die so it isn't going to immediately get rid of mites or lice on the birds. I put it underneath the litter in the pens that have actual coops and refresh it periodically so that it is present all of the time to scrape up the insects bodies. Drives me crazy every time someone thinks that they are going to use DE for a bad outbreak of something and get immediate results.

The herbs and spices also have to be refreshed periodically to keep their potency to repel bugs. Our roosts are made of cedar to help repel bugs as well. Birds get dustbaths of dirt/sand/DE/sulfur to help them with bug control too. But again, we take a multi-modal approach to all bug control - even when it comes to killing the grasshopper plagues in the garden. And we do things consistently and watch for when we need to refresh everything. That's part of good husbandry and if folks want to use natural treatments, they need to understand this concept. Most don't though. Heck, most people can't even understand why they are supposed to finish the entire course of an antibiotic prescription even though they feel better after just a couple of days on the antibiotics. *eye roll*

My mom and grandma used to make really strong Sassafras and Mayapple root tea and put it on the chickens two or three times a year. They said it worked and I guess it likely did.

 

[bnjrob]

My mom and grandma used to make really strong Sassafras and Mayapple root tea and put it on the chickens two or three times a year. They said it worked and I guess it likely did.

LOL, it probably did work. As I continue to try *new* things from antiques books, I've been surprised at how well some of these things work even when they do sound kinda corny.

 

[finnfur]

I have never used anything but DE and sulphur flour - Nests , floor at bedding change and sometime dust bath areas.
Never had a problem I am aware of.

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,
Ok so I went out to feed the chickens this evening and...drum roll.....another hen has decided to sit eggs. It's the latter side of August! Hum.. well, she can go ahead and sit them. I had a hen raise chicks in the end of winter in freezing temps last year. So guess she will have to do that this year at the beginning of winter. Should hatch Sept. 7th. Sire is nephew of the sire of the 9 chicks. I think most all the chicks from both hatches are a backcross to the Boese strain thru either sire or dam.

One thing about these Sussex hens, they really know how to keep their chicks warm. These 9 that hatched in the coop? I never had a light on and several days after hatch, left the pop door open with hardwarecloth over it. She did sit on one and I lost it but the others are doing fine. I had a farmer get ahold of me. He wants eggs the end of Feb.. That's great, I think.
Best,
Karen

 

[hellbender]

Hi,
Ok so I went out to feed the chickens this evening and...drum roll.....another hen has decided to sit eggs. It's the latter side of August! Hum.. well, she can go ahead and sit them. I had a hen raise chicks in the end of winter in freezing temps last year. So guess she will have to do that this year at the beginning of winter. Should hatch Sept. 7th. Sire is nephew of the sire of the 9 chicks. I think most all the chicks from both hatches are a backcross to the Boese stain thru either sire or dam.
Best,
Karen

If push comes to shove...they can roost ............on your headboard for one season!!! Way to finely get the season rolling!!!

 

[3riverschick]

If push comes to shove...they can roost ............on your headboard for one season!!! Way to finely get the season rolling!!!

hee, hee, hee! Look what I found, surfing Google book this evening:
"Mr. Lewis Wright, whose name as an authority on poultry matters is universally known, writes of the Sussex in 1864: "The most distinctive point about the breed as I knew it then, was its width of its back. It was wider and flatter than any other, according to my impression." The Dorking back at present is quite different, sloping away from the center. The birds I supposed were Sussex or Surreys forty years ago, would have touched a rule laid across, about four or five inches. This characteristic is still preserved and no breed looks so square formed as the Sussex, and it has a long deep breast bone and a broad square forward breast, and its skin is very fine and white. But its chief merit over the Dorking is its far greater hardihood. In Sussex the chicken rearing season lasts the whole year round and is conducted out of doors, that is to say the coops are out in the open every month of the year, indeed, it is no very uncommon thing to dig them out of the snow. I have done it myself: but as a rule winter in Sussex is very open: i.e., snow is conspicuous by its absence. There is in fact no hardier breed living than the Sussex. For generations it has never been coddled or made to live the artificial life of a fanciers' fowl, it can stand almost any amount of cold and does."
Best,
Karen
Now I just wish I knew how to breed that flat back, sigh. if I understand poultry anatomy correctly and how all the different parts of body type harmonize...if I can get this wide flat back, everything else about correct Sussex body type should fall into place.