Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[BGMatt]

Speaking from my experience breeding sheep, my other flock, improvement is based on where you are in the flock and where you want to go. Each year or two the average is a little better. It is slow progress: improvement over the year before.

Yup! You need to have a solid goal in mind, and then progress towards it.

 

[Arielle]

So......

with any breed we should
1. trap nest to record age to first egg, try to keep the best 10%
2. weigh every cockerel at the same age (4 months) and try to keep the best 10%
3. best type and vigor from those?

please list other criteria.

now I need to learn how to wing band, the leg bands I have been using come off.

with a flock of 25 pullets that means that I am selecting 3 to keep from the first egg method. Now I am beginning to see why breeders hatch such large numbers. I might not get any "good type" pullets in the 3. I need to hatch 100 pullets to have ten to pick from for type and vigor.

As I remember my livestock classes, the more traits you want to select for the more difficult to find the animal that exemplifies all the traits and the more years to make progress.


For ex. In Holland, the Dutch Warmblood horse which is the second largest product exported out of Holland, after flowers of course. 25-35 stallions are selected annually for breeding out of about 5000 colts born that year. THe most selective horse breeding program in the world to become one of the best performance breeds in the world for jumping and dressage.

Even in this program, the criteria has been carefully orchstrated. For example. OCD is a joint disease and it affects the performance of horse as it ages. THis was a soundness issue: years of training down the drain when a horse became unsound. First they did the research to study the desease and found it was heritable. THen they created a plan. All new stallions must be evaluated, receiving no more than a 3 out of 5 rating for each joint. As the offspring grew up the rating was tightened to a score of 2 as the max.

ALL the breeders participate in this. No exceptions. The result is the whole gene pool improves on average. There is a volunteer testing program for the mares. The inspectors consider the mare and the sire when accepting a young stallion into the breeding program. The best is barely good enough.

 

[Arielle]

I'll just chat a bit of what I do. Can't speak about what others may or may not do.

I use a calendar, with big squares and make notes on that. Set dates, hatch dates, hatch results, feather out dates, egg laying dates, that kind of thing. I also journal my matings my pairs and generations and transfer my calendar information into that breeders journal. I now also include photos, I nice modern advancement. Maybe it is my age and weaker memory, but I see it as a good thing. This forces me to Write Things Down. I cannot imagine folks having a good enough memory to just "remember" all this stuff. Nah. I'm amazed that folks don't have basic data when I ask them questions. When did they feather? When did they start laying? How many eggs did she lay her pullet year? I get a lot of blank looks and stuttering.

Record keeping is essential. This is hard enough with only one main breed. I cannot imagine how difficult this must be with those trying to juggle record keeping with half a dozen breeds. I need to focus on just one or two breeds. That's all I can keep up with. That's just me. Plus, I don't have the "collectors" disease. You know the folks that have a need to collect a dozen different breeds just because they strike their eye. I don't get bored with my focus, I guess.

Because you see deeper than the feathers.

 

[Maggiesdad]

Kudos to all you folks stepping up to the plate to keep this thread rocking - I really appreciate it!

 

[Dahlisgrams]

Kudos to all you folks stepping up to the plate to keep this thread rocking - I really appreciate it!

x2!!! Thank you!!

 

[3riverschick]

Next season, I am killing all the cockerels as soon as I figure out they are male.
I don't need to be feeding all these useless males I can't place outside this flock.
Best,
Karen

 

[Arielle]

Next season, I am killing all the cockerels as soon as I figure out they are male.
I don't need to be feeding all these useless males I can't place outside this flock.
Best,
Karen

Since the original purpose of these nice fast growing lt sussex is to put food on the table, killing them for food makes sense. But would n't you want to raise them up a little longer to fill out?? Picking the best males means growing them out. Geez, Karen, If I lived closer I would take them all home and feed them up and then invite them to freezer camp.

Do you eat them? Or just enjoy breeding them?? No judgement here. Had an uncle with the best racing pigeons around. He didn't eat the culls. (I do wish he was still around to ask questions. )

 

[Wisher1000]

I have a Hispanic family (huge) that will buy all the eggs and culls I can provide for $3 (per 18 eggs or 1 bird). I offered to give them the roosters and I get one out of every three back ready for the freezer! I will be hatching LOTS of chicks!!

 

[Arielle]

I have a Hispanic family (huge) that will buy all the eggs and culls I can provide for $3 (per 18 eggs or 1 bird). I offered to give them the roosters and I get one out of every three back ready for the freezer! I will be hatching LOTS of chicks!!

THe fee is $5 per chicken at the butchers. I save myself some money and do it myself. Both my boys are getting faster at plucking.

 

[ki4got]

Quote:
not sure if you're for or against what I said... but IMO a heritage breed should be one that can grow, sustain itself and reproduce quite well on whatever feed is available, in addition to being willing and capable of finding their own if nothing else is forthcoming. not those requiring high protein, massive quantities, etc. I want a good table carcass from a bird of any age (not just young). the dorking fits that bill for me. IMO the older roos are more filling, almost as tender and every bit as tasty as the younger ones, they just have more meat on their bones.

another benefit, unlike faster growing breeds, the dorking builds it's frame first, so the bones are mature by the time the body starts getting heavy, which means the bone structure can be lighter than similar sized birds... compared to a similarly sized 'dotte, the dorking has more meat to bone ratio in my experience, than the 'dotte does.
Ki4 - I'm certainly not against you, I'm not against anybody. I'm here to learn and I love a good discussion, it helps me ( and other readers ) to understand. I interject what I'm thinking to see if it is on or off track. I will listen to the old masters here who not only have decades of experience in breeding, but who are consistant winners in the shows, and who are concerned and patient enough to steer a floundering noob in the right direction. There is alot of great advice in just this discussion that you introduced, especially the summation from Yellow House Farm which will be copied, printed and placed into my breeding reference notebook (thanks, YHF!)

ETA:
I have some idea rattling around in my head that I can't quite get to jell... something about keeping the foraging traits incase they are needed but supplementing for show in order to reveal the full potential of the genes present........ I'll keep trying to get that thought organized......
I didn't mean to imply for or against me or anyone else, I just couldn't decipher whether your comments were agreeing with what i'd said or something else entirely. LOL

as for mentors, most of mine aren't online... but they still offer valuable insight to anyone willing to listen to them IMO. some are fairly local, but unfortunately, one is in Maine, the other in Pennsylvania, and I hate talking on the phone much. LOL so when I can meet up with them (in person or by phone), the conversations are always long and varied, and always interesting.

btw, my name is Karen. KI4GOT is my amateur radio call sign. (aka ham radio)