Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
The heritage breeds should have been accepted into the standard before the push toward specialized commercial production birds. Bob Blosl used 1950 as the cutoff date and Bob started the original "Heritage" threads on BYC, so many of us on this thread tend to use that same date. "Very early 1950's" would probably be more appropriate than an exact date.

 

[BGMatt]

I don't believe the ALBC has a cut off date for acceptance to the APA SOP to be considered Heritage - The Delaware was developed in 1940s from two Heritage old line breeds.
It was not accepted in SOP until 1952 . Under your definitions you would not consider the Delaware heritage ??

ALBC in fact does not. The say "Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed."

Delawares are a good talking point. The Delaware is a breed that's on the fence for me, it was the last breed really developed as a commercial fowl before hybrids really took off, and with quick development being one of the key idea behind it. To the best of my knowledge it never had a huge presence as a small farm, homesteading type fowl like most of the other breeds we consider "Heritage". Could easily be mistaken on that too, just going off conversations I've had with folks that were around back then. Whichever side of the fence that breed falls on for each individual person, I think it's definitely the swansong for purebred poultry in the commercial sense in the US.

 

[Judy]

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[capayvalleychick]

Delawares are a good talking point. The Delaware is a breed that's on the fence for me, it was the last breed really developed as a commercial fowl before hybrids really took off, and with quick development being one of the key idea behind it. To the best of my knowledge it never had a huge presence as a small farm, homesteading type fowl like most of the other breeds we consider "Heritage". Could easily be mistaken on that too, just going off conversations I've had with folks that were around back then. Whichever side of the fence that breed falls on for each individual person, I think it's definitely the swansong for purebred poultry in the commercial sense in the US.

That is part of what I find significant about the Delaware chicken as a breed. I think of this breed as marking the end of an era.

Prior to industrialized agriculture, farmers used to supply chickens for production. Feed mills, hatcheries, farms, and processors were all separate entities in the early industry.* This was the period when the Delaware was created and was a useful fowl. Then, in the early 1950s, there was integration of all stages of poultry production. From this point on, the poultry company took over all stages of production - breeding, hatching, processing and marketing. The Cornish Cross came along with this integrated poultry production and the farmers no longer were needed.

So, even if the Delaware was never a popular farmstead chicken, the breed still has historical importance.

*http://www.nationalchickencouncil.org/about-the-industry/history/

 

[BGMatt]

That is part of what I find significant about the Delaware chicken as a breed. I think of this breed as marking the end of an era.

Prior to industrialized agriculture, farmers used to supply chickens for production. Feed mills, hatcheries, farms, and processors were all separate entities in the early industry.* This was the period when the Delaware was created and was a useful fowl. Then, in the early 1950s, there was integration of all stages of poultry production. From this point on, the poultry company took over all stages of production - breeding, hatching, processing and marketing. The Cornish Cross came along with this integrated poultry production and the farmers no longer were needed.

So, even if the Delaware was never a popular farmstead chicken, the breed still has historical importance.

*http://www.nationalchickencouncil.org/about-the-industry/history/

Definitely agree with you here and thanks for expanding on that. The only thing that makes me personally put it on a fence, although I'm cognizant of the fact that it has nothing to do with the "Heritage" definition, is that since it's such a relatively recent breed, and we know the formula to recreate it from birds that are still present in the forms that were used back then. Compare that to say a Dorking, or a Langshan, or a Redcap, La Flèche, Favorelles, Hamburg, Leghorn, etc etc which we either don't know how they were made, or parent breeds are extinct, or no longer found in the form that existed then. Just to be clear because I know sometimes words get twisted, not bashing on the breed at all, nor the breeders of that fine fowl, just explaining why I said it's on the fence as a "Heritage" breed for me personally.

 

[3riverschick]

I don't believe the ALBC has a cut off date for acceptance to the APA SOP to be considered Heritage - The Delaware was developed in 1940s from two Heritage old line breeds.
It was not accepted in SOP until 1952 . Under your definitions you would not consider the Delaware heritage ??

Good question. From what I have read, it seems that the two definitions are kinda fudged together. ABLC and the one I wrote which, from what I have read, seems to be accepted here on the list.
For instance the Delaware existed as a breed before 1950-1. So even tho it was accepted in 1952, from what I have seen, it is considered a heritage breed. The Silver Sussex isn't considered a heritage variety, even tho the Sussex is a heritage breed. But the Light, Red and Speckled are. ~~There is only one variety of Delaware so it is, to my thinking, a heritage breed. The Silver Sussex was developed in the 1930's but was never accepted by the APA. With such a wide time period between development and any future acceptance by the APA, I doubt it would be considered a heritage variety.
I think the best way to consider the 1950-1 cutoff date is to consider what a lister posted earlier. That the date was used to separate the older breeds from the new production, hybrid breeds which started to take over the market after 1950.
Best,
Karen

 

[capayvalleychick]

only thing that makes me personally put it on a fence, although I'm cognizant of the fact that it has nothing to do with the "Heritage" definition, is that since it's such a relatively recent breed, and we know the formula to recreate it from birds that are still present in the forms that were used back then. Compare that to say a Dorking, or a Langshan, or a Redcap, La Flèche, Favorelles, Hamburg, Leghorn, etc etc which we either don't know how they were made, or parent breeds are extinct, or no longer found in the form that existed then. Just to be clear because I know sometimes words get twisted, not bashing on the breed at all, nor the breeders of that fine fowl, just explaining why I said it's on the fence as a "Heritage" breed for me personally.

What you are describing is the difference between foundation breeds and composite breeds. If you use that criteria for defining heritage breeds, quite a few more than the Delaware would have to be eliminated as heritage breeds.

I'm actually a real stickler for all animals referred to as heritage. Drives me crazy when I see people using the term purely for marketing. To me, heritage breeds have unique qualities (that have been lost in modern production breeds) , are historically significant and are healthy and hardy.
I like the ALBC definition (because it includes my Dels) but I also acknowledge that the SPPA has a different version. I raise only heritage breeds, not for marketing purposes, but because they are truly wonderful and special and deserve to be preserved.

BTW, it's not quite as easy to recreate the Delaware by crossing a BR and NH. Ask Kathy and all of us who now have her project Dels and are struggling to figure out how to get them true to the SOP.

 

[finnfur]

Definitely agree with you here and thanks for expanding on that. The only thing that makes me personally put it on a fence, although I'm cognizant of the fact that it has nothing to do with the "Heritage" definition, is that since it's such a relatively recent breed, and we know the formula to recreate it from birds that are still present in the forms that were used back then. Compare that to say a Dorking, or a Langshan, or a Redcap, La Flèche, Favorelles, Hamburg, Leghorn, etc etc which we either don't know how they were made, or parent breeds are extinct, or no longer found in the form that existed then. Just to be clear because I know sometimes words get twisted, not bashing on the breed at all, nor the breeders of that fine fowl, just explaining why I said it's on the fence as a "Heritage" breed for me personally.I

I have very limited knowledge of chicken history . Using that definition would not the New Hampshire be in the same category since we know how it was developed although a earlier time frame. I would say the only reason the Delaware didn't progress was because of the cornishX . But that also slowed the growth of all the meat/dual purpose breeds . The Delaware just didn't have the time span to become popular. Just my thoughts

 

[BGMatt]

What you are describing is the difference between foundation breeds and composite breeds. If you use that criteria for defining heritage breeds, quite a few more than the Delaware would have to be eliminated as heritage breeds.

I'm actually a real stickler for all animals referred to as heritage. Drives me crazy when I see people using the term purely for marketing. To me, heritage breeds have unique qualities (that have been lost in modern production breeds) , are historically significant and are healthy and hardy.
I like the ALBC definition (because it includes my Dels) but I also acknowledge that the SPPA has a different version. I raise only heritage breeds, not for marketing purposes, but because they are truly wonderful and special and deserve to be preserved.

BTW, it's not quite as easy to recreate the Delaware by crossing a BR and NH. Ask Kathy and all of us who now have her project Dels and are struggling to figure out how to get them true to the SOP.

Oh I know. Didn't say it was rational. LOL And I know Foundation vs Composite isn't part of the "Heritage" definition. Was just me personally. I'm not even a big fan of the term "Heritage", I prefer Standard bred, but that makes people think they're just for show. It just seems like the best term to distinguish between well bred fowl and hatchery garbage, then again I see hatchery birds sold as "Heritage" all the time too so what can ya do?

Y'all are doing awesome work recreating the Delaware too from what I've seen.

 

[thedragonlady]

Anyone have any thoughts on the pelleted horse bedding for feather footed breeds?

Kitty litter is tha way to go. It is simple to clean feet, and screen it every day.