Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Fred's Hens]

Are we talking 10% for patterned varieties( Columbian, wheaten, or anything along those lines ) or solid colors( excluding blue I would assume)?

Also to get lines that practically produce copies of the parents, how is that achieved? Obviously not adding a bunch of new blood would help but which breeding method? Would I just have to breed the crap out of them( e.g. many generations, not just a ton of chicks ) and keep my genetics close??

Rip is a judge, so he can answer better than I. All I can share is my own experience. Last year, in breeding some of the best Barred Rocks you might imagine, we put 70 chicks on the ground, give or take. Of those? We only kept 7 or 8 birds for our future breeding plans and might have shown only half of those, had we wanted to do so.

So, Rip's percentage is quite accurate in my view. The more skilled the breeder, the longer the line is bred the better your chances get for producing what I call a level produce. Walt Leonard mentioned last spring, I think, that he could have taken any number of his New Hamps to show. They were just that level. This isn't nearly often enough the case.

 

[gjensen]

I have actually had patients who had that, and still got coded in the ER and surgery! Alot of people don't realize that in certain situations the "DNR" is "put on hold" any time you have surgery the attending medical professionals will use life saving measures because "if you weren't having surgery you (might not) have needed to be coded." In reply to the person who said they'd get a DNR tattoo. Also in reading about vaccinations and preservation of immunities with in heritage breeds, I have a question... If you have a heritage breed why would the pre-exposure induced by a vaccination (allowing an immune response to a milder form) be a problem, since these are newer diseases (bacteria, viral) an immune response to a new threat that is mild still produces a "natural" immune response with a semi-controlled exposure. Therefore the bird that sneezes may be showing a more immediate immune response to a toxic invader? I'm curious and would like to know from experienced folks who kept "sneezy the first" did he/she seem to suffer more symptoms and did anyone have chicks that did better or worse? Thanks to everyone for info

I do not keep anything that sneezes.

I am not talking the sneezing they might do chowing down too fast, or clearing out some dust.

 

[Beekissed]

I do not keep anything that sneezes.

I am not talking the sneezing they might do chowing down too fast, or clearing out some dust.

I've never had a bird that sneezed other than the above mentioned reasons or for allergy to cedar shavings...but if I did, I would do the same. Sneezy would be gone.

 

[NanaKat]

Quote:

They are on grass from day one and part of the flock from day one and enjoying their protection. Last year (my first) I isolated the broody's, but then returned the brood back to the flock in 1 to 2 days after hatch. No real issues, some people don't agree with this. I do have lots of room, so the subordinate hens that were broody had room to run and hide. Aggression from other hens was limited, directed more to the broody hen than the chicks and subsided within a few days. The dominate hens that had a brood ruled the yard. The chicks raised by broody hens on pasture turned out to be large and beautiful. I think all of the exercise they get, plus the natural foods makes a difference. Not only is a hen with chicks enjoyable, but seeing 8 week olds who are no longer with mom, running with the adults and being part of the flock is enjoyable as well. How I incorporate this into a breeding program will be a challenge. Farmers in the early 20th century hatched out with broody's on a large scale, but I would assume that they maintained(kept separate) a small breeder flock over a long period of time and were not as focused on breed quality as we are. I need a broody sub flock that will go broody more or less as a group and at the same time each year so I can be prepared for it.

Quote: I have Cochin and Wyandotte hens that go broody frequently. In fact three Wyandotte in the layer room and one Cochin in a breed pen are broody. I will moved 15 marked eggs from a Wyandotte breed pen under the Cochin hen. I can then mark those chicks when they hatch. Any Cochin eggs laid will be collected to go in the incubator. I would prefer the breeding hens NOT go broody, but it happens.

With the Wyandotte hens, I will move all three nests into one large pen with a protected coop letting them sit on their golf balls for a few days to settle. All three will get a clutch of chicks toepunched from the incubator. The three hens will group raise the chicks and I will be able to record the growth progress by the toepunches. These are seasoned hens that have successfully raised a clutch before. I have an older cock bird that I can put with the hens. He is great with chicks too. When the chicks are a week or so old, the hens and cock will be able to leave their pen during the day to freerange with the chicks in tow.

In addition, I have several Cochin/Wyandotte cross hens that are part of my incubating team. I know these are not heritage but they make wonderful mothers and lay eggs thru the winter.

 

[bnjrob]

Also in reading about vaccinations and preservation of immunities with in heritage breeds, I have a question... If you have a heritage breed why would the pre-exposure induced by a vaccination (allowing an immune response to a milder form) be a problem, since these are newer diseases (bacteria, viral) an immune response to a new threat that is mild still produces a "natural" immune response with a semi-controlled exposure. Therefore the bird that sneezes may be showing a more immediate immune response to a toxic invader? I'm curious and would like to know from experienced folks who kept "sneezy the first" did he/she seem to suffer more symptoms and did anyone have chicks that did better or worse? Thanks to everyone for info

If one bird has been exposed to something, chances are, more than one, if not all of the birds have been exposed. The theory is that if you get rid of any showing s/s of a problem, you're left with the birds that have the healthiest immune systems that managed to get exposed and fight off the bug while being asymptomatic. And if they all were NOT exposed (of course you'd need lab draws on all to check for exposure to something), getting rid of the symptomatic one could save the entire flock from exposure.

 

[Zanna]

Are we talking 10% for patterned varieties( Columbian, wheaten, or anything along those lines ) or solid colors( excluding blue I would assume)?

Also to get lines that practically produce copies of the parents, how is that achieved? Obviously not adding a bunch of new blood would help but which breeding method? Would I just have to breed the crap out of them( e.g. many generations, not just a ton of chicks ) and keep my genetics close??

I can't speak from personal experience but my Uncle in Law raised Champion Game Cocks for over 40 years and made a very good living doing so. He bred, sold, and flew all over this country and into others with them. I do not condone this in any way and it took about 10 years into my marriage before my stubborn self would even talk to him about chickens. When I finally gave in I realized he was a wealth of old timer information. He says that by F'5's, having made the right breeding choices of course, you should be producing apples for apples, type and colour. My response was "even colour?". He said yes! We shall see, I am a ways off yet with my breeds................

 

[gjensen]

Set up is also my issue. I think a single run for hen and chicks is the best way here too. A 3x3 coop and attached 4x10 run should do for a hen and 8 chicks. Using the coop as brooder and ranging them in the run till culling time at 10 weeks. Whaddayathink? That 1/2 sq. ft. per chick inside and 5 sq. ft. per chick outside. plus 4 sq. ft per hen inside and 10 sq ft, per hen outside. I have a huge dog run outside Only have one senior collie left who uses it. I am thinking of taking a 10 by 24 ft section and dividing it into 4 ( 4x10) breeding pens with room left over to walk between them. How many large fowl chicks do you think can be brooded with the hen when cooped in a 3w x3d x 4h coop?
Thanks,
Karen

Karen, in my opinion, not many. That would only be 9sf, and you have the mother to. Not for long anyways.

I also had trouble scheming the next step. I do not get real excited about mixing ages. I can't seam to help but compare them to their pen mates.

For me it would take quite an operation to do it on any scale, but many do it successfully. I need to pay more attention to the details in how they manage them. It seams that for me I would just have to learn when with the birds, and let the hen brood her own. Then I would want a pen large enough to be able to raise that batch in, and split the sexes at a point.

It seams to be a lot to me Karen. I like it, enjoy it, etc. I just cant see growing out a hundred birds like that. If the hens had an on and off switch . . . . .

I am speaking of me with my limitations.

 

[gjensen]

I can't speak from personal experience but my Uncle in Law raised Champion Game Cocks for over 40 years and made a very good living doing so. He bred, sold, and flew all over this country and into others with them. I do not condone this in any way and it took about 10 years into my marriage before my stubborn self would even talk to him about chickens. When I finally gave in I realized he was a wealth of old timer information. He says that by F'5's, having made the right breeding choices of course, you should be producing apples for apples, type and colour. My response was "even colour?". He said yes! We shall see, I am a ways off yet with my breeds................

I have learned more from a few old gamecock breeders than everywhere else combined.

 

[gjensen]

I've never had a bird that sneezed other than the above mentioned reasons or for allergy to cedar shavings...but if I did, I would do the same. Sneezy would be gone.

I had a problem get in once, and I eventually decided on an empty yard. It's not worth it, and the birds are never the same.

I do not know what I would do if something got established here after years of work. I would rather not decide, so if I even suspect something, it is history.

 

[gjensen]

I have Cochin and Wyandotte hens that go broody frequently. In fact three Wyandotte in the layer room and one Cochin in a breed pen are broody. I will moved 15 marked eggs from a Wyandotte breed pen under the Cochin hen. I can then mark those chicks when they hatch. Any Cochin eggs laid will be collected to go in the incubator. I would prefer the breeding hens NOT go broody, but it happens.

With the Wyandotte hens, I will move all three nests into one large pen with a protected coop letting them sit on their golf balls for a few days to settle. All three will get a clutch of chicks toepunched from the incubator. The three hens will group raise the chicks and I will be able to record the growth progress by the toepunches. These are seasoned hens that have successfully raised a clutch before. I have an older cock bird that I can put with the hens. He is great with chicks too. When the chicks are a week or so old, the hens and cock will be able to leave their pen during the day to freerange with the chicks in tow.

In addition, I have several Cochin/Wyandotte cross hens that are part of my incubating team. I know these are not heritage but they make wonderful mothers and lay eggs thru the winter.

Can you do you track eggs from individual hens? I am single mating.

My hens are not to patient with other hens while they are broody. I cannot raise them together.

Can you let a broody hen wait a week why you gather eggs from another hen? I do like the idea of giving a broody hen eggs from an incubator.