Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[ocap]

Working very hard on the SOP NN projects, Some badly needed R&R.>>> at least 3 weeks in Costa Rica, hopefully before (or after) the summer rains.

I was in Costa Rica and walked through a "Cloud Forest" exhibit where we saw a humming bird exhibit. I could have watched the humming birds for days! We were there in the first week of January so a lot of hummers migrate there for the winter.

 

[gjensen]

direct measurements of average global temperature go back to about 1850.

and yes, the climate is always changing -- what is different in our current era is the RATE of change (very fast), and the MAGNITUDE of change. both are pretty unprecedented.

1850 is not that long ago when the topic is climate change. And in 1850 was there truly global data being collected? That is not even close to enough evidence to make any definitive claims. Not when we look at the big picture. We can't know what kind of fluctuations might have taken place in between periods. Just not possible to know. We can do ice cores etc, but we are looking at particular places, and not necessarily representative of the earth as a whole.

We do not have enough data collected over a long enough period of time to know certainly that this is unprecedented. They may come up with enough for me, but they have not yet.

Now, I cannot know certainly that it is not unprecedented. With that, I would concede to that this shift is possibly unprecedented. It would be difficult to argue that there has not been a shift of sorts. I think the polar bears would argue that things have changed.

Like I mentioned in the post prior, I am not for this idea or against it. I am naturally skeptical. Every generation comes to believe facts that are proven wrong generations later. The more we know, the less we know.
I am even more skeptical since this topic has become so highly politicized. One has an extreme view of this and so does the other.

I just have a tendency to be skeptical about anything. I tend to need a little more than someone saying so. Especially with politics. At some point I may have to decide for myself with a level of trust. I just have not been convinced either way yet.

So interpret no disrespect for your view. I do not have a dog in the fight, so to speak. It is not an emotional topic for me.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: My chickens seem less effected by the major swings in temps, but other animals cannot take it. Horses are especially vulnerable.

IO have been looking at the barn and coop designs to see if alterations would make them betterfor the chickens. THe winter needs are very different than the summer--one to keep warm and the other to keep cool.

The only thing affected here by the sub zero temps is me. Lol
-2 yesterday morning, -3 this morning - without the wind chill.
In case you are wondering that is exceptionally cold for TN.
I have a 5 month old pup who sleeps in the snow with the rams, lambs born as recently as 10 pm Tuesday night, chicks hatched last week, and several young calves - all outside.
They all look at me and roll their eyes when I mention it's a little nippy. None of them care or seem affected.
THere is outside and there is outside. IN a closed barn is outside, a 3 sided shed is outside, and out in an open field is outside. Lambs born out in the cold wind often die of hypothermia in short order. Adequate shelter is a must, and I"m sure you have that covered.

I don't see any frost bite on my males that don't have a single comb. One muscovy has some damage at the fron of this "comb" area. I cannot see that frost bite is anything but very cold temepratures. I no longer think that dry air compensates for extremely low temps.

No one mentions how warm is the bird-- how many others are near by or squished up next to him to keep the core warm . . . .IMO it is like kids, keep the core warm and the hands are warm. THen at some point the temp is too low, and the winds are too strong, and the hands freeze no matter what. I felt the tips of my fingers getting cold after just a few minutes outside this morning, when I was testing how long I could manage without gloves. Hate gloves. Been wearing them a lot lately.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

1850 is not that long ago when the topic is climate change. And in 1850 was there truly global data being collected? That is not even close to enough evidence to make any definitive claims. Not when we look at the big picture. We can't know what kind of fluctuations might have taken place in between periods. Just not possible to know. We can do ice cores etc, but we are looking at particular places, and not necessarily representative of the earth as a whole.

Excellent points, 160 years is a blip in time and ice cores show huge temperature fluctuations between eras.

Another thing the ice cores show however is the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere at the time of all the warm periods and ice ages. That graph compared to today would make a believer out of anyone who is skeptical that global warming isn't man made.

...

Now, I cannot know certainly that it is not unprecedented. With that, I would concede to that this shift is possibly unprecedented. It would be difficult to argue that there has not been a shift of sorts. I think the polar bears would argue that things have changed.

Like I mentioned in the post prior, I am not for this idea or against it. I am naturally skeptical. Every generation comes to believe facts that are proven wrong generations later. The more we know, the less we know.
I am even more skeptical since this topic has become so highly politicized. One has an extreme view of this and so does the other.

Skepticism is healthy - especially in this politically polarized environment and 24 hour television smewz and opinion.
And if the point of view by pundits on their favorite channel mirrors their own view, that makes them believers as well.

I just have a tendency to be skeptical about anything. I tend to need a little more than someone saying so. Especially with politics. At some point I may have to decide for myself with a level of trust. I just have not been convinced either way yet.

So interpret no disrespect for your view. I do not have a dog in the fight, so to speak. It is not an emotional topic for me.

Nor I. I'm sure I'll be dead by the time the US resembles the Sahara and oranges are growing in Canada.
I will however, miss the polar bears and times when famine was only in arid places with huge populations. With population growth exponential, even if climate change slows, we still will have to think of food differently as species extinction explodes and our favorite seafood will be rationed.


At least chickens - humans' preferred source of animal protein are quite adaptable to a wide range of climates. Not to mention they can eat their own feathers and feces.

 

[lawatt]

1850 is not that long ago when the topic is climate change. And in 1850 was there truly global data being collected? That is not even close to enough evidence to make any definitive claims. Not when we look at the big picture. We can't know what kind of fluctuations might have taken place in between periods. Just not possible to know. We can do ice cores etc, but we are looking at particular places, and not necessarily representative of the earth as a whole.

We do not have enough data collected over a long enough period of time to know certainly that this is unprecedented. They may come up with enough for me, but they have not yet.

Now, I cannot know certainly that it is not unprecedented. With that, I would concede to that this shift is possibly unprecedented. It would be difficult to argue that there has not been a shift of sorts. I think the polar bears would argue that things have changed.

Like I mentioned in the post prior, I am not for this idea or against it. I am naturally skeptical. Every generation comes to believe facts that are proven wrong generations later. The more we know, the less we know.
I am even more skeptical since this topic has become so highly politicized. One has an extreme view of this and so does the other.

I just have a tendency to be skeptical about anything. I tend to need a little more than someone saying so. Especially with politics. At some point I may have to decide for myself with a level of trust. I just have not been convinced either way yet.

So interpret no disrespect for your view. I do not have a dog in the fight, so to speak. It is not an emotional topic for me.

nor for me -- but the question asked was, how far back do directly-measured global temperature records go, and the answer is, 1850. that is NOT the sum total of data on climate change, but this does not seem like the right forum to flood with this topic. but there are lots and lots of other forms of data (tree ring measurements, analysis of ice cores, paleogeologic data, etc) that all show a strikingly rapid climate shift going on, more or less since the Industrial Revolution began and wildly accelerating since the 1950s or so. if interested, feel free to PM me (I'm an environmental studies professor).

back to chickens, please!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

..., but this does not seem like the right forum to flood with this topic. ...

back to chickens, please!

That's why I always try to figure a way to interject chickens into the discussion.

 

[RedRidge]

 

 

 

 

How far back do those records go?

direct measurements of average global temperature go back to about 1850.  


and yes, the climate is always changing -- what is different in our current era is the RATE of change (very fast), and the MAGNITUDE of change.  both are pretty unprecedented.

My chickens seem less effected by the major swings in temps, but other animals cannot take it. Horses are especially vulnerable.


IO have been looking at the barn and coop designs to see if alterations would make them betterfor the chickens. THe winter needs are very different than the summer--one to keep warm  and the other to keep cool. 

The only thing affected here by the sub zero temps is me. Lol

-2 yesterday morning, -3 this morning - without the wind chill.

In case you are wondering that is exceptionally cold for TN.

I have a 5 month old pup who sleeps in the snow with the rams, lambs born as recently as 10 pm Tuesday night, chicks hatched last week, and several young calves - all outside.

They all look at me and roll their eyes when I mention it's a little nippy. None of them care or seem affected.

THere is outside and there is outside. IN a closed barn is outside, a 3 sided shed is outside, and out in an open field is outside.  Lambs born out in the cold wind often die of hypothermia in short order. Adequate shelter is a must, and I"m sure you have that covered. 

Actually, I will have to respectfully disagree on this point. Raising lambs is just like raising chickens. Breed the hardy ones, cull twice as deep as you think you should, and then you are only perpetuating the best genetics. Some people breed everything they started the season with. Most people do this actually. And then they have no clue they are perpetuating problems. My healthiest lambs are born in deep snow and cold temps. I will not lamb past Feb. Hypothermia is not a problem if you have health and vigor. Having more than 400 lambs a year i can tell you that most people pamper and baby their lambs... use heat lamps... Or heaven forbid put them in an enclosed barn. This is a health nightmare waiting to happen and your survival will either be very low or it will be high only because you have lost sleep and a lot of time and money saving those who should not have been bred to begin with. If your average survival rate isn't over 96% unassisted, then your business plan and genetic knowledge needs assistance.

Breeding and livestock genetics are my business. If I were to treat it like a hobby it would stand no chance of providing a living. I run the entire farm alone and have no choice but to work smarter and not harder if it is to be profitable.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Eleven degrees here in SC this morning. All that lovely snow had started to melt yesterday, and we have black ice this morning .It is supposed to go up to 60 by this weekend. More confusion for the birds.

I have 2 big Buff Orp hens in crates, in my living room. One is the survivor of a hawk attack that ripped her throat open a week ago.She had an inch and a half rip in her throat, that I put 5 stitches in. She is healing nicely. The other is her sister, who went into a full molt last week . She is naked, but still laying every day. I think she's bucking to be a house chicken.These birds are worth saving.

My other hens are perfectly happy, and dealing well with the cold, continuing to lay up a storm. Their covered sand runs are wrapped in clear tarps, as I live on the side of a hill which faces North, and we have very strong winds.All my birds have double walled Resin sleeping boxes, if they do not live in the main run , which has an insulated large sleeping coop also. In this sort of weather I run a 100 W. bulb, 24/7, in their coops . This keeps the bedding dry, and humidity down. The boxes are bedded in straw, which is picked up every day.

The male Orps are another matter altogether. Even though my cocks have smaller combs than many Orps, those combs will freeze. If that happens, you can kiss fertility good bye for about 4 weeks, and the bird will be useless as a show bird. Any single combed cock bird is subject to frost bite at extreme temperatures, and it simply makes sense to me to prevent it. I don't think it has a thing to do with the hardiness of a bird if it gets frostbite. It is a matter of luck, and sometimes, bad husbandry.My boys stay up until the temps go above 25. The birds can't control where they live, or the weather, but I can insure their well being. Just part of good animal husbandry to me.

I had to sew up one of my yard bird hens a week or so ago. She had gashes on both of her sides from my big big rooster. They are both Delaware/Wyandotte crosses. But he is just HUGE. She is not small by any stretch of the imagination but his feet must have slipped off her back, maybe more than once. She has continued to lay through her ordeal. One gash was almost 3" long and the other about 1.5" I got her all cleaned up, sewed up, separated so she could heal and now she's all healed up without a single sign of infection so I guess I did alright. I'm thinking though, that I need to get rid of that rooster. I can't continue first aid on the hens because of him and this hen was the biggest of them all. I need to check the other hens for damage since his favorite hasn't been available.

I didn't mean to imply that I think frostbite has anything to do with hardiness. But drafts and moisture affect hardiness in how warm the bird can keep itself. I have one hen that looks like she has a touch of frostbite on a couple of her points but other than that, everybody seems fine, for now.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Hey RedRidge,

I was just looking at your rose combed reds! Beautiful birds! You ought to show them on here so everybody can see their flat backs! Very well bred.

 

[hellbender]

I know nothing of sheep, except what my neighbor tells me (while I roll my eyes). He insists they are to be treated just like goats, which shows me that he knows nothing about goats...We are both ignorant of each other's animals....The difference is, I'm aware of it and he is not. He thinks he knows all there is about everything...But I still like him and we are good friends.

Anyhow...I raise Saanen dairy goats, Pure, American and Experimental. Some of my doe kids (when I sell one) will fetch 12 to 15 hundred dollars and I'm sure some 'sheeps' sell for high prices too but not his...

My goats kid in a barn; no heat lamps or any other kind of heat source because that truly can be the kiss of death to a kid...in my opinion. I do dry them off and will help pull a kid, especially for a first freshener.

My point being....with goats, cattle (at least mine) and chickens...heat can cause far more problems than it cures.

I have a drafty goat barn and very solid chicken houses (well ventilated). I do frequently rub a kid dry and make certain it gets colostrum but that's it.

This works well for me...