Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Arielle]

Actually, I will have to respectfully disagree on this point. Raising lambs is just like raising chickens. Breed the hardy ones, cull twice as deep as you think you should, and then you are only perpetuating the best genetics. Some people breed everything they started the season with. Most people do this actually. And then they have no clue they are perpetuating problems. My healthiest lambs are born in deep snow and cold temps. I will not lamb past Feb. Hypothermia is not a problem if you have health and vigor. Having more than 400 lambs a year i can tell you that most people pamper and baby their lambs... use heat lamps... Or heaven forbid put them in an enclosed barn. This is a health nightmare waiting to happen and your survival will either be very low or it will be high only because you have lost sleep and a lot of time and money saving those who should not have been bred to begin with. If your average survival rate isn't over 96% unassisted, then your business plan and genetic knowledge needs assistance.

Breeding and livestock genetics are my business. If I were to treat it like a hobby it would stand no chance of providing a living. I run the entire farm alone and have no choice but to work smarter and not harder if it is to be profitable.

While in theroy I agree with you, and only a few of my ewe lambs make the cut each year, then I cut again the next year-- or I did this until I down sized.

I am curious as to what your night time temps are in TN compared to mine in the NOrtheast. We might be talking rather different temperatures. IN the far north of VT, the one sheep breeder I know lambs in May. And one other I know here in Mass lambs in APril and in both cases the lambs are then raised on pasture. I suspect our temps are quite different.

 

[Beekissed]

I lambed in April also, though all the other sheep farmers had their lambs in Jan/Feb because of getting them to market size when the market prices are at a premium and also for their kids to have fair lambs. I was doing hair breeds and trying to keep with Salatin's idea of having baby ruminants when the wild ruminants were having theirs as the land has a more natural flow of nutrients and I didn't have to flush due to the high sugar content of the grasses then.

 

[Rhinoman]

Some land mass is becoming exposed that has been frozen for over 2000 years !

Think hard about that! In other words prior to 2000 years ago that land was NOT frozen. The earth is 4.5 Billion years or so old and at one time it was entirely molten.

The temperature or this planet has never been "STABLE" and core samples show it has at times changed very very quickly.

When I was stationed in Alaska we used to call it the giant heat tab in the sky, looks like an egg yolk to me. Yes, solar activity (Scientist have known this for hundreds and hundreds of years) and the earths core and not my Subaru or my coal stove are responsible for our weather.

People are using global warming and fear for their own agendas, period. People use fear it to attempt to pass gun laws or spend more money on national security or raise taxes. The right defends NSA spying and the left defends a national takeover of my families health care. Cops dressed like the SS troopers storm into grocery stores selling unpasteurized milk, lefties freak out. Cops dressed like SS troopers storm into a business because it supposedly violated some ridiculous EPA regulation, righties freak out.

Ones ability to keep chickens and be self sufficient is constantly under threat by an unrestrained and overbearing government that just because we have so many examples of much worse governments; keeps getting away with gross violations of our civil liberties. Whether the weather, or your safety of lack thereof, or public health is the excuse, the end results are the same; liberty loses.

Everyone involved with raising heritage birds (or any other birds for that matter) should want to protect everyone's right to keep and bear arms, free speech and reproductive rights, and right of those who want to marry someone of the same sex because next it'll be chicken keeping under attack and sometimes it is. Want a carbon tax to save the planet, how about a chicken tax to help pay for the new chicken police?

There were people keeping Emus in a town near where I used to live. They legally were allowed to keep the birds where they lived. After a long battle with the town they lost and had to get rid of the birds, the reason: people were so intrigued by the birds that they would stop along the road to look. The town ordered the people to get rid of the birds because the neighbor of the Emu keepers kept complaining about all the people stopping to look at the birds; it disturbed the peace.


Off topic, I think not. There are 4 bazillion rules put in place by the do-gooders of society. Many of these rules make everything we want to do in our own backyards that is unusual or unique difficult and sometimes impossible. Breeding chickens is not what most people do in their backyards. The idea that we the people are influencing our climate in a significant way and need to be controlled even more and consequently need even more stupid laws and taxes for our own salvation infuriates me!!!!!!

 

[RedRidge]

Actually, I will have to respectfully disagree on this point. Raising lambs is just like raising chickens. Breed the hardy ones, cull twice as deep as you think you should, and then you are only perpetuating the best genetics. Some people breed everything they started the season with. Most people do this actually. And then they have no clue they are perpetuating problems. My healthiest lambs are born in deep snow and cold temps. I will not lamb past Feb. Hypothermia is not a problem if you have health and vigor. Having more than 400 lambs a year i can tell you that most people pamper and baby their lambs... use heat lamps... Or heaven forbid put them in an enclosed barn. This is a health nightmare waiting to happen and your survival will either be very low or it will be high only because you have lost sleep and a lot of time and money saving those who should not have been bred to begin with. If your average survival rate isn't over 96% unassisted, then your business plan and genetic knowledge needs assistance.


Breeding and livestock genetics are my business. If I were to treat it like a hobby it would stand no chance of providing a living. I run the entire farm alone and have no choice but to work smarter and not harder if it is to be profitable.

While in theroy I agree with you, and only a few of my ewe lambs make the cut each year, then I cut again the next year-- or I did  this until I down sized.

I am curious as to what your night time temps are in TN compared to mine in the NOrtheast. We might be talking rather different temperatures.  IN the far north of VT, the one sheep breeder I know lambs in May. And one other I know here in Mass lambs in APril and in both cases the lambs are then raised on pasture. I suspect our temps are quite different.

Being from up north i have discovered that temps are very similar. What is different is how many months you have those two extremes. Up north I experienced 2 seasons. Here I have 4. I graze 9 months out of the year here.
After you have raised livestock for a lot of years your genetics left should be awesome if you are breeding correctly. If you have only been doing it for a few years or have restocked then obviously the time it takes to reach a point of no hassle livestock care is a lot less.

Winters do not last a long here so we have 4 distinct seasons. For example, when it gets to -3 here with 24" of snow (like earlier this week), we don't shovel it - we wait for it to thaw in a couple of days (usually a week at the most). Living in the Smoky Mountains gives you a wide range of weather. Up north when it snows it sticks around for weeks or months - i remember being dug out of our house one year with 3 enloaders. Bluh! We should be above freezing tomorrow for the first time in about a week.

We have grass by the first half of March here. So I lamb twice... Once I Jan and Feb, that way no lambs are older than 60 days when the spring grasses begin to come in and they are old enough to begin actively grazing. This not only makes for healthier lambs (because they aren't hitting the ground when spring parasites hit), but it also makes the most efficient use of the grazing months. The lambs get a good start and finish on grass in June before the summer pastures lose their nutritional value. If they aren't over 100 lbs on milk and grass alone by 5 months then something is wrong.
You do NOT want to lamb in April or May in TN as the Barber pole problem the end of June, combined with the heat and humidity, will dramatically slow weight gain. Same thing with poultry... All sheep and chickens begin daily pasture rotation the first of March. Prime forage and no worming necessary.
As I've said before... I don't raise livestock, I raise forage - the livestock simply convert that forage to meat, milk, and eggs for me.
I also lamb in Sept to provide a group of Easter lambs to the New England market.
All calves are born in March and Oct - this is primarily due to when i need the most milk from pasture.
I have a barn, it is used to store hay and equipment and to milk a few sheep and a couple of cows. Animals in a barn means two things I don't want... bacteria in a confined space and work to clean it out.
I keep a minimum of 4 Maremma at any given time to assure the safety of all the livestock since they live on pasture and in the woods. The woods is their shelter but it also harbors predators. The Maremma prevent any losses due to predation.

 

[Arielle]

I looked up one source of average temps for Mass compared to TN. The locations are quite different in winter temps. Central Mass-- average night time lows in Jan is 10-12 degrees, and day time averages are 31-34 degrees and the info for TN nights 27-28 and days 45-50. THis could account for a difference in management during lambing.

http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Massachusetts/temperature-january.php

http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Tennessee/temperature-january.php

 

[RedRidge]

I lambed in April also, though all the other sheep farmers had their lambs in Jan/Feb because of getting them to market size when the market prices are at a premium and also for their kids to have fair lambs.  I was doing hair breeds and trying to keep with Salatin's idea of having baby ruminants when the wild ruminants were having theirs as the land has a more natural flow of nutrients and I didn't have to flush due to the high sugar content of the grasses then. 

This is very location specific. Having lambs born when the grass is at its prime benefits the ewes making milk but does not benefit the lambs (except for the milk they drink) who do not even ruminate until they are at least 3 weeks old. Look at where Joel lives. I will have deer grazing in my front yard by the end of Feb and coyote pups hunting them by the middle of March.
To take advantage of quality grass the first half of March, lambs need to be on the ground by the middle of Feb.

 

[Beekissed]

This is very location specific. Having lambs born when the grass is at its prime benefits the ewes making milk but does not benefit the lambs (except for the milk they drink) who do not even ruminate until they are at least 3 weeks old. Look at where Joel lives. I will have deer grazing in my front yard by the end of Feb and coyote pups hunting them by the middle of March.
To take advantage of quality grass the first half of March, lambs need to be on the ground by the middle of Feb.

Yep...Joel lived just across the mountain range from me, so it worked for me as well.

 

[RedRidge]

I looked up one source of average temps for Mass  compared to  TN.  The locations are quite different in winter temps. Central Mass-- average night time lows in Jan is 10-12 degrees, and day time averages are 31-34 degrees and the info for TN nights 27-28  and days 45-50. THis could account for a difference in management during lambing. 

http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Massachusetts/temperature-january.php

http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Tennessee/temperature-january.php

If you live on the plateau those numbers may be accurate. For a more accurate temperature range for where I am you'd have to look up the TN side of Candler, NC... The Smoky Mountains North East of Gatlinburg

 

[pinusresinosa]

I know that everyone right now is debating stuff about temps and lambs and whatnot, but I wanted to say something. Some of you with those chickens as your avatars.. just so stunning. Those chickens are lovely, putting it lightly. I'm sure however, that this is not news to you.

Whoo. Man, so cool! LOVE this place!

 

[gjensen]

I think this chatter about seasons, weather etc, is relevant. There is a natural ebb and flow to things. It is easier to go with it than against it unless there is some advantage to fighting it.

In SC and Georgia, quail and turkey breeding season kicks in around March. Most of the eggs are hatching in May. These two birds having the most similar habits to our birds is relevant to me. The young are hatching as the insect population is beginning to increase.
Our birds are most fertile and active in March as the weather is first starting to warm and as the days continue to get longer. The broodies tend to be sitting in April, and the chicks on the ground in May.
There is variation in the captive and wild populations but the months mentioned see the most activity.

The birds I have would be in their prime for fall shows if hatched at a similar time frame. There is little reason for me to go against it other than to beat the heat, but with ample shade and cool clean water these birds don't seam to miss a beat in the heat. Coupled with that my birds want to molt their first year if hatched too early, I think that I will just go with the flow this year.