Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[gjensen]

For chickens I suspect most of the forage protein would be coming from insects that live in the grass rather than from the grass itself. (Grazing mammals would be a different story.) Sand ridges are tough. I'm in a desert. My yard is pretty much devoid of plants and insects except where I have things on a drip system. With water bills already $100/month or more I'm not planting any fields of forage. The compost pile, mesquite tree litter, and garden beds produce a fair number of insects, so my small flock has something to browse on and hunt in most of the time. Much as they dislike the summer heat they really enjoy the July-August rainy season insect feast. We have several really short seasons, so it's hard to figure out how to time things.

Sarah

Insects are certainly the best forage for chicks. It does not take long to deplete the population in an area. I can't depend on them. I only have a couple acres.

I lived out your way for a year (almost). I love it out there. I lived outside Phoenix and spent my weekends climbing around the Superstitious Mountains. The Sonoran Desert is beautiful. I also used to go out that way every year. I had more money to waste then. It is a special place. One day I hope to go back.

 

[gjensen]

I have a creep feeder on the pasture that only the chicks can access, so they eat a lot of high protien feed as well. I provide water here too. When they get old enough and start getting interested in the adult feed (it does not take long) I will switch the entire flock to an all flock (20%) feed and provide oyster shell on the side. That worked well last year. The hens ate the oyster shell as needed. I will open up the creep feeder to the flock after a few weeks when I think the chicks are big enough not to need a completely protected area to eat and drink. The adults for the most part stay with their feeder. So, it is multiple generations comming off at different times within the same flock, with multiple feed/water stations as needed to provide adequate access to all age groups. The farmers count on the pasture for no more than 15% of the required protien. Obviously, the more insects that are available the more protien that is available. I am inexperienced as well, but the pasture provides a more Diverse and healthier environment, that is obvious common sense in my book.

I agree that the more greens and forage they have access to, the better. You can't beat it as far as the health of the birds.

What I was watching last year was that the chicks went where mom went. They did not spend a lot of time in front of feeders. Mom would do her eating in the morning and evening. She is on the move the rest of the day. The chicks in the brooder are in front of the feeder all day.

Now, it is cheaper to let mom raise those chicks for the same reason. If you do not account for what Mom eats that is.

I am looking at it from a weight gain perspective if you intended to process them. You will not get the same gains as you would if the growers are confined and stuck in front of the feeders. More and more I find myself shifting to a more traditional approach.

 

[gjensen]

Compost piles are great. I pick up leaves and grass from along side the road, that others have already raked and bagged up. Bee started a thread over on the Feeding and Watering Forum, "Developing the grass in your yard for free range..." that might be helpful to people interested in this sort of thing.

Compost piles are great for the birds to rummage through if you can spare it. Especially for the young with all of the insects etc.

 

[Arielle]

I have a group of SS that stay in the woods all day and move around the leaf litter. THey do have pellets in their coop for as needed. The only down side is that the egg shells become very soft and break. I have sprinkled eggs shell around their favorite areas; and include oyster shell in their feed. IT is hit or miss. WHen I need to collect eggs for hatching , I keep them penned.


Karen-- thanks for reposting that source of seed. Lofts is another one we have used to seed our lawn.

 

[Fentress]

I agree that the more greens and forage they have access to, the better. You can't beat it as far as the health of the birds.

What I was watching last year was that the chicks went where mom went. They did not spend a lot of time in front of feeders. Mom would do her eating in the morning and evening. She is on the move the rest of the day. The chicks in the brooder are in front of the feeder all day.

Now, it is cheaper to let mom raise those chicks for the same reason. If you do not account for what Mom eats that is.

I am looking at it from a weight gain perspective if you intended to process them. You will not get the same gains as you would if the growers are confined and stuck in front of the feeders. More and more I find myself shifting to a more traditional approach.

I don't know. Sounds like an interesting case study to me. Hint! Hint!

My observations are that for the first few days, the chicks only eat what mom points too. After that the chicks go to the creep feeder, which I locate close by in a high traffic area, when they are in the neighborhood, so to speak. Wherever the brood spends the night, the feeder should be next door. They will at least hit it first thing in the am and pm.

 

[hellbender]

Those are good thoughts Karen. I do plant some forage mixes in the fall. They are fading here in early May. Ever year is different, but most years May is killing off the cool season stuff.

Timothy etc. does not like our heat/humidity and soil. It does better west and north of me. Timothy etc. is better for ruminants. Only the fresh emerging growth is really good forage for chickens.

The two grasses that does best here is invasive. Bahia and Bermuda. They persist with little care. Bahia is not bad when it is young, and it puts out a surplus of seeds that the birds do eat.

The best forage grass that does ok here if it has enough moisture is crabgrass. Ironically, crabgrass is very palatable.

The best thing I have learned for improving forage is tilling and liming patches. This brings up a variety of broad leaf weeds and natives. If allowed to get a start, it also become a good insect refuge. The birds spend more time foraging these free patches than they do the grass. Everyone thinks I am crazy for this, but it works.

In a place like I am it is easy to spend more on the supplements than you do the feed. I try to take advantage of what I have. Like anywhere there is some advantages. The sand drains well and easier to " clean", etc. It never stays wet, and wet is not good for birds.
Outside of a couple months it is a good place to raise birds.

Ever tried Zoysia grass? It's pretty hardy and grows well in my yard which is part sand and clay. Once it gets hold, it is great and can stand drought, flood and chicken attack.

 

[gjensen]

Ever tried Zoysia grass? It's pretty hardy and grows well in my yard which is part sand and clay. Once it gets hold, it is great and can stand drought, flood and chicken attack.

No I haven't personally, but am familiar with it. It has been used on some of my jobsites. I was a bit skeptical of it because it seams to be rather fine, small leaves, and struck me as coarse. I prefer softer more broad leaves for chickens. I did want to try in an area because of it's reputation of being slightly tolerable of shade.

Fescue is a good grass for birds, but you will fight the devil to keep it viable through our summers. I like St. Augustine, but I doubt it would have made it through this cold snap we just had. It does well in the low country SC.

Really, I think grass is a bit over rated for chickens. They will eat it when that is the majority of what they have. Really when they are foraging what they are looking for most is weed seeds, sprouting weeds, and insects. They really prefer to forage under the cover of trees and scratch through the leaf litter, and forage the edges. They prefer an edge type habitat where there is cover and a surplus of food.

Only 15% of the jungle fowl's diet is greens, and most of that is sprouting and tender sweet leaves. 50% is seeds. 20% is insects etc., and 15% is fruit. Adjusted according to availability and season of course. Just to give an idea.

 

[gjensen]

I don't know. Sounds like an interesting case study to me. Hint! Hint!

My observations are that for the first few days, the chicks only eat what mom points too. After that the chicks go to the creep feeder, which I locate close by in a high traffic area, when they are in the neighborhood, so to speak. Wherever the brood spends the night, the feeder should be next door. They will at least hit it first thing in the am and pm.

If they are fenced in on grass, they will spend more time in front of the feeders. If they are not confined and there is tree cover they will hit the trees and shrubs and spend the majority of their time their. When I speak of foraging I am thinking trees, shrubs, and some grass.

Really you want them eating the feed you provide. It is hard to beat what comes in a bag. Our birds are not jungle fowl, and we want them to perform. I guess what I think about is the best of both worlds. The birds are better for it.

 

[cubalaya]

...........oh never mind, no point to it

so you like my point? good......

 

[Beekissed]

Really, I think grass is a bit over rated for chickens. They will eat it when that is the majority of what they have. Really when they are foraging what they are looking for most is weed seeds, sprouting weeds, and insects. They really prefer to forage under the cover of trees and scratch through the leaf litter, and forage the edges. They prefer an edge type habitat where there is cover and a surplus of food.

Only 15% of the jungle fowl's diet is greens, and most of that is sprouting and tender sweet leaves. 50% is seeds. 20% is insects etc., and 15% is fruit. Adjusted according to availability and season of course. Just to give an idea.

I'll have to throw in a dissenting vote on that view for a moment. I've been watching birds free range for a long time now and watching them closely. I'd say that it's a 40/60 split on what they forage in a day's time.....grass/insect and worm life. My birds work their meadow surrounded by woods in a circuit and that changes with the seasons and the available grasses but they seem to spend an good amount of time grazing vs. foraging in the leaf litter. I think a person is going to see that this varies according to the available grass in the pasture area as to what is palatable to the bird. I'm thinking just regular lawn variety grasses may not be the most palatable for a backyard kept bird but native grasses and pasture grasses, including forbs such as clover, are more suitable for their monogastric existence and they are gaining quite a bit of absorption of the proteins to be found there.

And it's the actual grasses they are grazing and not the seed heads, though they do a good bit of that as well in the fall. I've watched them and actually can hear them nipping the grass as they go along.



CX doing the evening grazing of the clover plots.



Fall planted clover on the finished garden being gleaned by the layer flock.





Young pullets mowing the meadow.


Whenever I kill a bird and empty out that crop and gizzard, I'll find quite a bit of grass in both and I can honestly say I've never found a bug in a crop. I can understand the bugs not being found in a gizzard as the cellulose and fiber in the grass takes longer to process but the crop is merely a storage area and should hold whatever the bird foraged immediately prior to the kill.

When I was free ranging CX this past spring they consumed a lot of grasses and forbs...it was their first stop for feeding. They'd fill up on clover and then move the wood line and start tossing leaves. Come evening they'd hit that clover again and graze it down like a herd of cows.