Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[thedragonlady]

Yet another reason to despise AKC...I was still showing Rare Breeds when AKC created the division in the ranks of the Australian Shepherd folks.

These days, AKC is registering breeds that they didn't know existed less than 20 years ago. MONEY...MONEY...MONEY grubbers.

Couldn't agree with you more. They now have the Border Collie, whom the shepherds took to the hills when the collie craze hit England during Victoria's reign.The parlor breeders made them pretty, and stupid, whereas the shepherds kept the brains in the breed. It is a shame.The people who really work Borders, are sticking to the stock dog registry, so maybe, just maybe, the breed will not have all the brains bred out of it.

A good full sized Aussie, who is properly bred, can be a formidable dog to predators , or intruders , but you have to buy one from the stock dog registry, not from AKC bred litters.

 

[NanaKat]

Correct on both.
Hellbender and DragonLady....both our dogs will defend the human pack to the death....looking fierce to any who approach until told "enough".
The Catahoula believes the chickens are his but has not been schooled in defending them. Red is actually Catahoula/Labrador and was a puppy dumped on our farm "because every farmer/rancher needs a dog". He will lay on the barn floor and let chicks hop all over him and peck his nose etc. He alerts me when a bird is in trouble or not up to par and is vigilant when the bird is checked. He has taken on three coyotes when he was 4. He is now 6.
Gracie is more the cattle dog with her herding instincts. She does help round up the flock in the evening to coop up. And disciplines Red if she thinks he is getting in the way. At 10 years of age, she is slowing down. We got her at two years of age from a breeder who decided to reduce her breed stock. Gracie had never whelped pups and she adopted Red as hers when he was dumped.
The chickens are not afraid of the dogs and pay attention when the dogs bark and either run for cover or run for treats depending on the sound.
Gracie weighs 60 pounds and Red weighs in at 90.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Its taken me many days to read thru this thread. I've found it to be very educational. I've learned a lot.

Years ago, I had a good trio of Red Dorkings. I just couldn't get my project off the ground. I didn't build the right infrastructure for what I needed to do and I didn't have a good grasp of what it would take. I have no history with chickens prior to that. I just decided I wanted chickens tried a few and then decided that Dorkings would fit my climate well. And I liked them. Once I got them I liked them even better!

So now, years later better educated with better infrastructure, I'm starting again.

I have Red Dorking chicks coming in May from Dick Horstman and hatching eggs from a small breeder that should arrive tomorrow. I'm going to have my work cut out for me to get where I want to be. I'm sure these birds will not match up to the trio that I had years ago. They were a very good trio from a very good breeder. I'm going to have to get a copy of the SOP. I had one, its just been shuffled and misplaced or given away. For all I know it went to half price books! Things have a way of disappearing here.

At some point when I start evaluating my chicks I'm going to need help. I would be nice to have a mentor close by, but I don't know if that is possible. I'm certainly not going to find some one well versed in the ins and outs of breeding Dorkings! They seem to be few and far between.

I want a useful bird for my situation. I have a climate that is a challenge and a Dorking should think its back in merry ol' england. My old ones did. My biggest challenge is predators. The only ones I don't have are snakes and other peoples dogs. The worst are the weasels and coy-dogs. I actually like when a cougar is passing thru, everything else clears out. Electric fencing is my friend. My dog is no help. He decided it was wiser to be wary of the elk and coy dogs and be friends with the coyotes. I've threatened to get a guard donkey a few times, but I just have too much water in my soil for any equine to thrive and the cougar would just see it as a tasty morsel.

Right now I have Legbars in my brooder. A friend gave me eggs to hatch and I like those blue eggs. They are a project purely for my amusement. I can do what I want with them. They seem to lack vigor. Something that I see often in imported birds in the early years. Too much emphasis on keeping every bird.
Jennifer

Greetings Jennifer!

Good luck with your Reds from Horstman. They're good birds as Dorkings go. Dorkings are in need of a lot of support and a very specific type of breeding.

It takes a good few years to get to know your birds and their growth habits. I wouldn't cull anything save the most obvious faults until minimum 6 months--better 7 or 8. You want to get a good sense of what they're going to become. Weight them at 6 months.

Where are you located?

Keep your birds toe punched, and don't lose track of any of these chicks from this "breeder" who sells eggs. There are folks, especially in the Red Dorking crew, who do not practice sound breeding practices. Only use that stock if it is exceptional.

Take this for what it's worth, but I wouldn't mess with the Legbars. I know they're "imported" but they're not a "top shelf" bird. Several of these imports that are all the rage are little more than mongrels. It's a bit of the emperor having no clothes.

How many Red Dorkings do you have on order from Dick?

 

[pigsflyacres]

Greetings Jennifer!

Good luck with your Reds from Horstman. They're good birds as Dorkings go. Dorkings are in need of a lot of support and a very specific type of breeding.

It takes a good few years to get to know your birds and their growth habits. I wouldn't cull anything save the most obvious faults until minimum 6 months--better 7 or 8. You want to get a good sense of what they're going to become. Weight them at 6 months.

Where are you located?

Keep your birds toe punched, and don't lose track of any of these chicks from this "breeder" who sells eggs. There are folks, especially in the Red Dorking crew, who do not practice sound breeding practices. Only use that stock if it is exceptional.

Take this for what it's worth, but I wouldn't mess with the Legbars. I know they're "imported" but they're not a "top shelf" bird. Several of these imports that are all the rage are little more than mongrels. It's a bit of the emperor having no clothes.

How many Red Dorkings do you have on order from Dick?

YHF, thanks for popping in. I admire what you've done with your whites. They are nice looking birds. Too bad white looks really bad here for 7 months out of the year.

I have 25 Reds coming from Dick. It was all he could guarantee me. I might have done things a bit differently if I had made this decision earlier but really, this decision and reading so many pages of this thread and the heritage farming thread are what I did while my son was in the Pediatric ICU. You gotta do something at 3 am. Not too worried about the eggs that I've got. I'm a cautious person no matter what the source. This gives me an opportunity to get my hands on some Tice genetics even if they do come in a roundabout way. I wing band everything and record as much as I can. Part of my sons rehab is to build me 2 breeding pens. My plan is to run 4 pens.

The Legbar eggs were given to me by the woman who owns the barn where I ride. I think she spent too much money on the eggs she got. However, I like the shade of blue for the eggs. It amuses me. I am not impressed by the chicks. I think they lack vigor. I have no serious intentions towards them at all. If I don't like them, I will just keep the pullets for eggs and that will be it. On the other hand, I could mess with them and see what I learn. They don't eat much, so I wont have much into it!

I live in the PNW. 30 miles east of Seattle right up against the Cascade mountains. In fact my house faces straight up to a mountain and I can see mountain goats there now. BGMatt is probably 2.5 hours away. Problem is the traffic. It makes a 2 hour drive a 3 hour drive. I'm sure there are good poultry people tucked in around me, its finding them. At least there is the internet. You can learn a lot. I'm now working my way thru the CSU thread.

Jennifer

 

[hellbender]

Correct on both.
Hellbender and DragonLady....both our dogs will defend the human pack to the death....looking fierce to any who approach until told "enough".
The Catahoula believes the chickens are his but has not been schooled in defending them. Red is actually Catahoula/Labrador and was a puppy dumped on our farm "because every farmer/rancher needs a dog". He will lay on the barn floor and let chicks hop all over him and peck his nose etc. He alerts me when a bird is in trouble or not up to par and is vigilant when the bird is checked. He has taken on three coyotes when he was 4. He is now 6.
Gracie is more the cattle dog with her herding instincts. She does help round up the flock in the evening to coop up. And disciplines Red if she thinks he is getting in the way. At 10 years of age, she is slowing down. We got her at two years of age from a breeder who decided to reduce her breed stock. Gracie had never whelped pups and she adopted Red as hers when he was dumped.
The chickens are not afraid of the dogs and pay attention when the dogs bark and either run for cover or run for treats depending on the sound.
Gracie weighs 60 pounds and Red weighs in at 90.

Well, at least Red and Gracie give you some notice and perhaps time for some 'lethal' intervention from the human component.

I wish there would be a 'National Bounty' placed on all yotes and their various incarnations. $200 bucks would give some folks incentive to help deplete the population but they are like cock roaches...they will never disappear from the planet....not even in the case of full on Nuclear Exchange...miserable bas#####!!!

 

[hellbender]

Couldn't agree with you more. They now have the Border Collie, whom the shepherds took to the hills when the collie craze hit England during Victoria's reign.The parlor breeders made them pretty, and stupid, whereas the shepherds kept the brains in the breed. It is a shame.The people who really work Borders, are sticking to the stock dog registry, so maybe, just maybe, the breed will not have all the brains bred out of it.

A good full sized Aussie, who is properly bred, can be a formidable dog to predators , or intruders , but you have to buy one from the stock dog registry, not from AKC bred litters.

Yep, a good Australian Shepherd can be formidable if properly bred. I've see so may nervous dogs, quaking in their own urine at the approach of a stranger now but I do remember when they were much, much more than fear biters and would take on all threats, human as well as the 4 legged variety.

The results of poor breeding practices that has been the downfall of so many breeds that have fallen into the clutches of the dreaded AKC.

 

[NYREDS]

Yep, a good Australian Shepherd can be formidable if properly bred. I've see so may nervous dogs, quaking in their own urine at the approach of a stranger now but I do remember when they were much, much more than fear biters and would take on all threats, human as well as the 4 legged variety.

The results of poor breeding practices that has been the downfall of so many breeds that have fallen into the clutches of the dreaded AKC.

Our Aussie is from the large end of the size spectrum. She looks & sounds like a bear when arroused. I count on her giving an intruder pause [human or animal] while I grab a weapon. Just added a 17 HMR to the arsenal-should be able to solve any Coyote problems with that.
There are 2 sides to every coin & the AKC, like the APA, is responsible for the survival of many breeds. However, I do agree that Colies wefre ruined by the show ring. My Grandfather told me of Collies he owned long ago that were superb cattle dogs. Also,s a former sheep farmer I prefer the working Border Collie o the show version but must admit the show doga are beautiful.

 

[Lacy Blues]

As Bob used to say, in selecting for fast feather growth to put pressure on laying or feather quality, do I look at the backs of the chicks for fast feather growth or just the wings or what?

Could someone go into some depth on this please?

 

[gjensen]

As Bob used to say, in selecting for fast feather growth to put pressure on laying or feather quality, do I look at the backs of the chicks for fast feather growth or just the wings or what?

Could someone go into some depth on this please?

I could be wrong, but I think his comments were specific to the Reds and what he found in his birds.

Maybe NY Reds could offer some insight. All I know is that I noticed that some Reds are a bit slow to feather. I would seam that your birds would be pretty consistently fast to feather, and I would not assume there is a link between the rate of feathering and their laying performance. If laying performance was a concern for me with your birds, I would be looking at the proof in the pudding. When they came into lay, their laying rate, when they went to molt, and how fast they came out of molt and returned laying etc.
Possibly the rate that they feathered out could be linked to how fast they matured and when they came into lay, but that would not necessarily make them a superior layer. These are just my initial thoughts.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Two of the reasons that the predators leave us alone:



A great alternative if you don't have enough acreage for an LGD breed, English Shepherds are multipurpose, working farm dogs.

They are descendants of the same group of English & Scottish shepherds' dogs that evolved into show collies, Border Collies and Aussies. They differ in that they were untouched by the AKC, bred for an upright, loose eyed herding style and selected for working ability, generation after generation.

Their versatility includes working all kinds of livestock, protecting stock, home and children, dispatching vermin, hunting, being the farmers' loyal shadow and helping out with all kinds of tasks.

They are very intelligent, can be bossy, and enjoy interaction with their people. They are not a dog to be kept in a kennel or backyard alone.

For more information, contact http://www.englishshepherd.org/