Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[gjensen]

Our Aussie is from the large end of the size spectrum. She looks & sounds like a bear when arroused. I count on her giving an intruder pause [human or animal] while I grab a weapon. Just added a 17 HMR to the arsenal-should be able to solve any Coyote problems with that.
There are 2 sides to every coin & the AKC, like the APA, is responsible for the survival of many breeds. However, I do agree that Colies wefre ruined by the show ring. My Grandfather told me of Collies he owned long ago that were superb cattle dogs. Also,s a former sheep farmer I prefer the working Border Collie o the show version but must admit the show doga are beautiful.

That is how I tend to see it. The organization did not breed the poor performers, the breeders did. It seams that dog breeds are hurt more by becoming popular than a lot of animals. Vey few people use their dogs for the things that they were originally bred.

I am a GSD fan. Always have been and always will be. I have a couple. I always liked the idea of breeding them, but always figured that was best left to those that trained them to be what they are. They could better evaluate the performers, and make better breeding choices. If I was to try it, I would be little more than a backyard propagator. There is plenty of those. Sure I could pick those that looked the part, but I think there is more to a good GSD than that. I will stick with enjoying having one or two around, and admiring the breed in general.

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
This relates to feather quality, not egg production:

Under "Importance of Feather Quality" on page 29 of the APA Standard of Perfection it says "Early and full feathering is associated with a good relatively broad feather of firm structure..." This leads me to believe that fast feathering is a trait to look for in most breeds, in order to improve feather quality.

The SOP goes on to say "Narrow thin feathers inclined to silkiness often found in the back wings and tail coverts, are particularly to be avoided and no specimen with this characteristic should be used for breeding." Doesn't answer the where-to-look-for-fastest-growth question, but it is informative.

This year I was trying to keep track of how long it took chicks to get fully feathered, but it was tricky with staggered hatches. They're all slightly different ages. It's hard to make accurate comparisons.

I'm with Lacy Blues - not sure what to look for, exactly. I need to work on a system of quantifiable things to track, so I can go back later and see who really did feather out fastest.

What does everybody else look at when determining who feathers out fastest?

Sarah

 

[gjensen]

This relates to feather quality, not egg production:

Under "Importance of Feather Quality" on page 29 of the APA Standard of Perfection it says "Early and full feathering is associated with a good relatively broad feather of firm structure..." This leads me to believe that fast feathering is a trait to look for in most breeds, in order to improve feather quality.

The SOP goes on to say "Narrow thin feathers inclined to silkiness often found in the back wings and tail coverts, are particularly to be avoided and no specimen with this characteristic should be used for breeding." Doesn't answer the where-to-look-for-fastest-growth question, but it is informative.

This year I was trying to keep track of how long it took chicks to get fully feathered, but it was tricky with staggered hatches. They're all slightly different ages. It's hard to make accurate comparisons.

I'm with Lacy Blues - not sure what to look for, exactly. I need to work on a system of quantifiable things to track, so I can go back later and see who really did feather out fastest.

What does everybody else look at when determining who feathers out fastest?

Sarah

I would agree with this tendency. I have seen the slow feathering Barred Rocks have much more narrow feathers than the faster and fuller NHs that I have had.

The topic I commented on was whether or not the trait is exclusively linked to laying prowess, and it is not. Feather quality is another subject, all together. I did not go there, because I have been unable to determine whether or not a bird had or would have good feather quality until they were much older. I am not saying that you couldn't, but it is beyond me at this point.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Although I, too, am oft distraught with the narrow feather seen on may Barred Rocks, I'm not sure that it's due to slow feathering. What is certain, though, is that the slow feather is what makes the barring , barring. When barring comes out fast, it's cuckoo--more or less in a nutshell.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Two of the reasons that the predators leave us alone:



A great alternative if you don't have enough acreage for an LGD breed, English Shepherds are multipurpose, working farm dogs.

They are descendants of the same group of English & Scottish shepherds' dogs that evolved into show collies, Border Collies and Aussies. They differ in that they were untouched by the AKC, bred for an upright, loose eyed herding style and selected for working ability, generation after generation.

Their versatility includes working all kinds of livestock, protecting stock, home and children, dispatching vermin, hunting, being the farmers' loyal shadow and helping out with all kinds of tasks.

They are very intelligent, can be bossy, and enjoy interaction with their people. They are not a dog to be kept in a kennel or backyard alone.

For more information, contact http://www.englishshepherd.org/

I had the pleasure of meeting one of these dogs today. A friend came over and brought his dog. It was very interested in my chicks. The tail was wagging and it wanted to get in the box with the babies. I took one out and cupped it in my hands to protect it so the dog could investigate. He sniffed and licked and wanted to pick it up but of course I was sheltering it as I was not sure how it would act. The owner said it was great and really sold me on the breed. I've thought of a LGD but don't really like them. He said the breeders have waiting lists. That would be ok as I would need to enclose a large area so the dog could run off some energy and be able to be on all sides of my chicken compound. So, I'll be looking into one of these dogs for sure. Next time I see that chihuahua, hopefully I'll have a dog to defend my birds! Keeping away coyotes would be an added benefit! It gets vermin as well and I have plenty of those!

This relates to feather quality, not egg production:

Under "Importance of Feather Quality" on page 29 of the APA Standard of Perfection it says "Early and full feathering is associated with a good relatively broad feather of firm structure..." This leads me to believe that fast feathering is a trait to look for in most breeds, in order to improve feather quality.

The SOP goes on to say "Narrow thin feathers inclined to silkiness often found in the back wings and tail coverts, are particularly to be avoided and no specimen with this characteristic should be used for breeding." Doesn't answer the where-to-look-for-fastest-growth question, but it is informative.

This year I was trying to keep track of how long it took chicks to get fully feathered, but it was tricky with staggered hatches. They're all slightly different ages. It's hard to make accurate comparisons.

I'm with Lacy Blues - not sure what to look for, exactly. I need to work on a system of quantifiable things to track, so I can go back later and see who really did feather out fastest.

What does everybody else look at when determining who feathers out fastest?

Sarah

Ok, I remember Bob specifically saying he picked up a red sex link from the feed store to put in with his RIR chicks to see which ones feathered out quickly like the sex link and they were definitely linked to egg laying. However, my main reason for interest in this is for the feather quality. I have had Andalusians with thin feathers and I've had them with feathers that wouldn't hold tightly together (silkiness?) but not on the back, mostly in the primaries and I'm trying to select for nice strong, wide feathers, particularly in the wings.

My chicks are 5 days old and of course they already have primaries growing in. What else do I need to look at?

 

[thedragonlady]

This relates to feather quality, not egg production:

Under "Importance of Feather Quality" on page 29 of the APA Standard of Perfection it says "Early and full feathering is associated with a good relatively broad feather of firm structure..." This leads me to believe that fast feathering is a trait to look for in most breeds, in order to improve feather quality.

The SOP goes on to say "Narrow thin feathers inclined to silkiness often found in the back wings and tail coverts, are particularly to be avoided and no specimen with this characteristic should be used for breeding." Doesn't answer the where-to-look-for-fastest-growth question, but it is informative.

This year I was trying to keep track of how long it took chicks to get fully feathered, but it was tricky with staggered hatches. They're all slightly different ages. It's hard to make accurate comparisons.

I'm with Lacy Blues - not sure what to look for, exactly. I need to work on a system of quantifiable things to track, so I can go back later and see who really did feather out fastest.

What does everybody else look at when determining who feathers out fastest?

Sarah

My Orps feather out very fast. At 4 weeks, they are ready to go outside. The fast feathering has not much to do with feather quality though, from what I've seen. Wide tail coverts, and back feathers have to be continually selected for, or you will loose them in a heartbeat. After 8 generations of selection with this trait in mind, I'm finally seeing many more birds mature with good, wide, dense feathers.This is a trait that should be selected for, as it is a bird's waterproofing, that allows it to range, even in bad weather.

 

[gjensen]

Although I, too, am oft distraught with the narrow feather seen on may Barred Rocks, I'm not sure that it's due to slow feathering. What is certain, though, is that the slow feather is what makes the barring , barring. When barring comes out fast, it's cuckoo--more or less in a nutshell.

What else would you attribute the tendency to? That is a connection that I made, but doesn't make it right.

 

[gjensen]

Lacy, I might be wrong, but I still think you will not find a connection to feather quality.

What I took from Bob with the Reds, and I still can be wrong, is that his birds that feathered in faster had better quality and laid better. I mentioned this before, because not all of the Reds were always fast to feather. Some were slow to feather. I base this on what I have read. I have also seen some Reds slow to feather. Compared to our birds or something like NHs anyways. I am not saying they are all like that. I don't know. Just know that some are.

There is no genetic link between the rate of feathering and lay rate. It could be that your birds that are faster to feather are more vigorous than another and lay better as a result. Fast feathering is an important trait for commercial layers, and many farm breeds overall, so there is a link where selection has been made on both points.

I would not be surprised to hear any link that someone may identify in their own flocks, but I can't see it being true exclusively.

 

[gjensen]

My Orps feather out very fast. At 4 weeks, they are ready to go outside. The fast feathering has not much to do with feather quality though, from what I've seen. Wide tail coverts, and back feathers have to be continually selected for, or you will loose them in a heartbeat. After 8 generations of selection with this trait in mind, I'm finally seeing many more birds mature with good, wide, dense feathers.This is a trait that should be selected for, as it is a bird's waterproofing, that allows it to range, even in bad weather.

My Catalanas are as fast to feather as any breed that I have owned, but have poor feather quality. Production Reds are fast to feather. and tend to have poor and brittle feathers.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Ok, so following that thought through... what can I do about it? The standard says that quick feathering is linked to feather quality... unless I'm really misunderstanding it. If it isn't, what can I do to better the quality of my birds' feathers? They seem brittle and easily frayed, though I've never made any attempt to verify it. I don't intentionally go around breaking my birds feathers to test their tensile strength and I don't intentionally rub individual feathers backwards to see how much they can take before the barbicels (or whatever they're called) come detached and stay that way.

Is it diet related or genetic? I'll be watching my early feathering birds to see how they feather out compared to the others and see where it goes from there but if anybody has any idea as to how to make better feathers, I'm all ears.