Home Feeding Ideas and Solutions Discussion Thread

[SouthDakotan]

But as to the science, I agree it's probably better to be over-informed and then take it from there than to be under-informed. Personally, I would also see if you can find any historical accounts about how people kept chickens through the winter in cold climates--you probably wouldn't find anything scientifically precise, but you might get some good ideas... just a thought...

Yes, luckily I'm 7 miles from an older ag university (South Dakota State University) and it has a very nice library with numerous older books in it. I'm figuring I will have to spend many hours down in their library basement digging through the older animal science books.

As for most of what I'm seeing on the forums, its impossible for me to supplement with soldier fly grubs and meal worms when the animals most need it, unless I want to LIVE in my house with the insects! There is no heat in any of the livestock sheds besides heat lamps. And from what I'm reading about heat requirements of the insects people are using as protein supplement in winter, they require 70+ temps. Not something I even have in my home in winter!!!

I'm dealing with sub zero temps. Today is sunny, but we're barely in the teens. I've resorted to designing a solar heated hen house, which we're planning on constructing this spring so that my girls can be warm in the winter months and then shutter off the solar panels during summer weather. That's my concept anyhow. We shall see how it works out.

Dog house is also going to become solar heated. LOL.

The next big "cold challenge" is water. EVERYTHING freezes, even heated dog dishes with water! So, I've got to figure out something different. I'm considering trying one of those galvanized watering fountains, on a galvanized heating platform. But placing over it a heat lamp, so the top is kept warm by the heat lamp, while the bottom is heated by the platform. Maybe then the water won't be frozen all the time.

Currently I take my duck hens HOT water bucketed out to the tub. By the time I walk those few feet outside it is already cooling drastically. It still has some steaming off it when its poured into their tub, but the girls have learned to quickly bath and drink their water, before it all begins freezing. I realize I don't "have to" have water all the time available, but I WANT TO as I know how much the cold zaps one's hydration from the body and I want them not just surviving, but thriving regardless of the season.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[galanie]

 

Yes, I have another huge one off to the side of that bed that won't get any. You don't add brown sugar to the LAB, you use it just as it is after straining off the cheese stuff, so long as you put it in the fridge. I'm in the process of removing the brick floor of my coop, something I've been meaning to do forever. So I'm holding off putting this junk in the litter till they're really on soil. Thankfully the brick is just laid in with no base, not mortared or anything.

 
But if you plan on storing it at room temp (limited fridge space) you have to add brown sugar or molasses (brown sugar is cheaper) right?

I would love to have made comfrey FPJ, but my chickens found my comfrey!!!!  And there is no doubt they really like it, so I need to plant lots more, I want to plant the self seeding kind too, I'd rather have invasive comfrey then runner grass.

 

Yes, it's molasses they want you to add 50/50 with the LAB. Brown sugar is mostly sugar with some molasses in it. I know that's not exact but if you mix 2 Tbsp of molasses with a cup of sugar, I can't tell the difference between that and store bought brown sugar.

I have a "cage" around my comfrey, it's the only way I can have most crops

 

[400constantne]

In order to keep your chickens hydrated during winter, it is a good idea to fill a large bowl with snow. Chickens love snow, and some will choose it over water. Of course you should continue to give them water once a day, but the snow will keep long term, and should always be available for them.

 

[triplepurpose]

Yes, luckily I'm 7 miles from an older ag university (South Dakota State University) and it has a very nice library with numerous older books in it. I'm figuring I will have to spend many hours down in their library basement digging through the older animal science books.

As for most of what I'm seeing on the forums, its impossible for me to supplement with soldier fly grubs and meal worms when the animals most need it, unless I want to LIVE in my house with the insects! There is no heat in any of the livestock sheds besides heat lamps. And from what I'm reading about heat requirements of the insects people are using as protein supplement in winter, they require 70+ temps. Not something I even have in my home in winter!!!

I'm dealing with sub zero temps. Today is sunny, but we're barely in the teens. I've resorted to designing a solar heated hen house, which we're planning on constructing this spring so that my girls can be warm in the winter months and then shutter off the solar panels during summer weather. That's my concept anyhow. We shall see how it works out.

Dog house is also going to become solar heated. LOL.

The next big "cold challenge" is water. EVERYTHING freezes, even heated dog dishes with water! So, I've got to figure out something different. I'm considering trying one of those galvanized watering fountains, on a galvanized heating platform. But placing over it a heat lamp, so the top is kept warm by the heat lamp, while the bottom is heated by the platform. Maybe then the water won't be frozen all the time.

Currently I take my duck hens HOT water bucketed out to the tub. By the time I walk those few feet outside it is already cooling drastically. It still has some steaming off it when its poured into their tub, but the girls have learned to quickly bath and drink their water, before it all begins freezing. I realize I don't "have to" have water all the time available, but I WANT TO as I know how much the cold zaps one's hydration from the body and I want them not just surviving, but thriving regardless of the season.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Ouch.

Well, you have my sympathy.

I was just trying to be the voice of Optimism, and affirm that there must be a way. People have kept chickens in conditions like that back in the day, too. Before feed mixes. So we know it's possible... The icelandic chicken is centuries old, kept as a landrace by Icelandic farmers scratching out a living in one of the most frigid, stormy places on earth... I don't think iceland in winter is any warmer than the Dakotas... But they did it, they kept chickens, and it worked, and the birds thrived--without a feed store down the road selling layer pellets. We need to reclaim this sort of working knowledge when we can, as much as possible, before it's lost (what isn't already).

 

[triplepurpose]

Good point. But just think of the chickens like athletes. Athletes will follow a precise nutrition plan in hopes of getting specific results. The rest of us pretty much just eat what we want. So you can feed your chickens in order to have them the best they can be, or just let them eat whatever they can scrounge. I guess in both cases you reap what you sow.

True, but you could take the athlete analogy one step further. Athletes often suffer injuries, burn out at a young age, and often sacrifice other aspects of their careers to achieve what they achieve. The same applies to chickens. Do I want a chicken that sets a new world record but then has to retire early? Do I want a laying hen more prone to get sick or injured or eaten by something, for the sake of a few dozen extra eggs a year? Do I want a chicken that excells at one thing, like an athlete, but doesn't know how to forage, or can't raise chicks? Not really. I'm interested in resilience and biological efficiency with low inputs in a flexible, natural setting, not necessarily maximum performance or maximum yield under special, high-input conditions. It's not the record-breaking, high-maintenance, gator-aid- and protein-shake-chugging athletes of the chicken world that interest me, but the ones who didn't go straight to college on a football scholarship--instead they maybe took some liberal arts courses, a business course, etc., to broaden their repertoire, learned to cook, maybe learned a trade, maybe even spent a year abroad, backpacking through South America. That is to say, the solid, vigorous, adaptible, independent livestock that have stood the test of time by providing for the needs of ordinary people under real-world conditions since the early days of farming. To each their own, perhaps...

Also, chickens won't usually just "eat whatever they want" but when faced with choice of natural, nutritious foods, will choose the things that their bodies most need at that time. People aren't always that smart. We've screwed with our own instincts and environment too much for most of us to be able to do that these days. Now most of us need need scientists and nutrition pundits to tell us what is good for us (and often, they are even more wrong, or are being payed off by financial interests). But chickens just know good food when they see it, and aren't swayed by flashy advertizing and phony health claims! Perhaps we could learn from that...

 

[sue ragan]

thank you so much we feel better about not overfeeding now,the rir seem to be holding their own now with the older chicks,the rooster we got with the older ones is so good about keeping things in line and making sure no one is picked on and the new ones (2) seem to respect his authority ,thanks a lot sue and curtis

 

[Kassaundra]

Southdakotan, I can't imagine such cold for so long! You are hit w/ a double whammy w/ keeping chickens through that, both the horrible cold and the long length of cold/short growing season. The amount of food you would have to stock pile would be huge. I would think the most obvious way of dealing w/ that situation in a more "natural" or "old time" method could be to treat them as a "seasonal crop" only winter over a core group of layers (breeders) grow out during the temperate season, "harvest" the meat so there wouldn't be such a food need over winter.

 

[galanie]

 

Good point. But just think of the chickens like athletes. Athletes will follow a precise nutrition plan in hopes of getting specific results. The rest of us pretty much just eat what we want. So you can feed your chickens in order to have them the best they can be, or just let them eat whatever they can scrounge. I guess in both cases you reap what you sow.

True, but you could take the athlete analogy one step further. Athletes often suffer injuries, burn out at a young age, and often sacrifice other aspects of their careers to achieve what they achieve. The same applies to chickens. Do I want a chicken that sets a new world record but then has to retire early? Do I want a laying hen more prone to get sick or injured or eaten by something, for the sake of a few dozen extra eggs a year? Do I want a chicken that excells at one thing, like an athlete, but doesn't know how to forage, or can't raise chicks? Not really. I'm interested in resilience and biological efficiency with low inputs in a flexible, natural setting, not necessarily maximum performance or maximum yield under special, high-input conditions. It's not the record-breaking, high-maintenance, gator-aid- and protein-shake-chugging athletes of the chicken world that interest me, but the ones who didn't go straight to college on a football scholarship--instead they maybe took some liberal arts courses, a business course, etc., to broaden their repertoire, learned to cook, maybe learned a trade, maybe even spent a year abroad, backpacking through South America. That is to say, the solid, vigorous, adaptible, independent livestock that have stood the test of time by providing for the needs of ordinary people under real-world conditions since the early days of farming. To each their own, perhaps...

Also, chickens won't usually just "eat whatever they want" but when faced with choice of natural, nutritious foods, will choose the things that their bodies most need at that time. People aren't always that smart. We've screwed with our own instincts and environment too much for most of us to be able to do that these days. Now most of us need need scientists and nutrition pundits to tell us what is good for us (and often, they are even more wrong, or are being payed off by financial interests). But chickens just know good food when they see it, and aren't swayed by flashy advertizing and phony health claims! Perhaps we could learn from that...

That is precisely what is being bred for as far as commercial meat and egg production. I'm not arguing the point just to be obtuse, I simply can see the reason some want to get so off into precise feeding. I don't, it's just not necessary. Nor is peeling tree bark. I mean you're right, there really is no need at all for the home flock raiser to go off into all this precise nutritional stuff at all. Just pointing out why people do it. Again, I don't. I think it's all silly.

 

[Suebee217]

Just putting in my "newby" 2 cents. I have had my hens less than a year and have so much to learn. However, like a good "Mother Hen" I observe my girls often so what I am about to say pertains to them. As I have read it seems all flocks can be a bit unique. We have a little over an acre (as do our neighbors) and up until this point if I am home all day I let the girls out to "free range." They do wander (not too far) over on my neighbors property a bit. Both neighbors have assured me repeatedly that they do not mind and will let me know as soon as they become a nuisance. One neighbor has chickens but except for one adventuresome hen, they do not leave their back yard! Not sure why unless they are too fat to squeeze through the wrought iron fencing. Both neighbors have assured me that they do not mind at all if my girls wander over from time to time. The "chicken-less" neighbor says they add to the "ambiance" and his two children love it. All this to say what I have observed pertaining to what my lovely ladies eat. I have always left purchased laying pellets or crumbles for them to eat at free will along with oyster shells. I have two compost bins made of pallets in their run. I bring out any leftovers that our dog won't eat to the chickens and what they do not eat goes into the compost bins. My adult children have left the nest and one would think that there are not many leftovers but wow, having these girls has made me realize how much food waste we actually produce. I am a bit obsessed and feed them everything... even toast crumbs go into the covered chicken bowl kept under the sink. Once a week (or so) I roast a chicken and make bone broth for soups and cooking from the carcass. Most of the leftover vegetable peelings for the week go into a large freezer container and I add them to the bone broth for flavoring. Once the broth is finished I strain the vegetables pick out any pieces of bone that have not disintegrated, along with any onions or garlic, then mash up the vegetables, soft bones and little pieces of meat and out to the coop it goes. I give the girls any leftover dairy, an occasional scrambled egg, the juice of canned fish, any leftover fruit, crushed egg shells, etc... all go to the coop. I drink a lot of herbal and green teas and I divide the leftovers between the hens and the compost pile. What goes to the compost bin are what the girls wont eat... onions, bell peppers, citrus fruit, black tea bags, coffee grounds, avocado peels, etc. I open the gate about once a month and let the girls scratch around and turn the pile a bit. They used to fly over and get into it almost daily but they rarely do this anymore. I don't know if it is because they are getting fatter or because they have just found more interesting things to eat. Recently the neighbors across the street lost two hens, one to a hawk, and one to a bobcat! Before this I was letting my girls free range anytime I was going to be home for the day. Now I am re-thinking this and may get a chicken tractor instead. Now for my observations. My girls clearly have a "pecking order" in their preference for food. In order of preference they always prefer "free range" food to leftovers or store bought pellets. If I open their coop and lay down tasty morsels they will run right past it to get out into the yard. Now at the end of the day they will return to the coop/run and eat leftovers but they definitely prefer to eat what they find on their own. Secondly they prefer the leftovers, and if all else fails, and there is nothing else to eat then and only then will they eat the pellets. If I am letting my lovely ladies free range often or bringing out plenty of leftovers then they hardly touch the pellets. Since my neighbors lost some of their hens I have been experimenting a lot with bringing the girls greens when they are cooped up that I have either watched them eat or read they will. Right now there are plenty of greens (especially bamboo leaves, chickweed and dandelion) that are growing on our property even in February (North Texas). So by their own choice my girls eat very little store bought feed unless I am out of town for a few days and that is all they have. I have five hens with one still too young to lay. Out of the four layers I get three to four eggs every day. I know this winter has been mild but it is February and my girls have show no sign of slowing down egg production. So actually I think I am very close already to feeding my girls for "free" and could easily do it if needed.

 

[SouthDakotan]

Ouch.

Well, you have my sympathy.

I was just trying to be the voice of Optimism, and affirm that there must be a way. People have kept chickens in conditions like that back in the day, too. Before feed mixes. So we know it's possible... The icelandic chicken is centuries old, kept as a landrace by Icelandic farmers scratching out a living in one of the most frigid, stormy places on earth... I don't think iceland in winter is any warmer than the Dakotas... But they did it, they kept chickens, and it worked, and the birds thrived--without a feed store down the road selling layer pellets. We need to reclaim this sort of working knowledge when we can, as much as possible, before it's lost (what isn't already).

Yes, I agree with you,

Today I found my first worthwhile "recipes", I think! I will share what I found. It was in the book Poultry and Poultry-Keeping by Alice Stern. She writes in her book the following recommendations for chick & chicken feeds:

First Week (feeding 6x daily)

Wheat Bran
rolled oats
chopped, boiled eggs (one per four chicks)
chopped young stinging nettles
chopped plantain
chopped dandelion greens
left over lettuce leaves (chopped)
whey, skimmed milk or powdered milk

1st week chick worming protection

grated carrots
crushed garlic, with cottage cheese churds or whey


2nd week (feed 5x daily)

1 egg, chopped & boiled / 6 chicks
rolled oats, dry
greens, no longer finely chopped
cracked corn, (evenings)
worm recipe once every 3 days
fruit and veggie left overs
sand/grit

Week 3 & 4 (feed 4x daily)

1 boiled egg/ chopped / 8 chicks
steamed potatoes, chopped
substitute calcium source w. crushed egg shells that have been boiled to sterilize them
sand/grit
churd mix once/week
red worms or meal worms

Begin allowing them to run in confinement yard


Week 5-8 (feed 3x daily)

give smaller amount of rolled oats
give grain mix of 25% finely ground corn, 50% cracked wheat, 25% barley

8 weeks PLUS in age (feed 2x daily)

allow drop door to open into run before dawn, so they can begin foraging for insects in run at day break, before bugs dig deeper into soil
after sunrise about 1 hr, feed mix (25% corn-50% wheat -25% barley) and greens to fowl
* steamed potatoes
* table scraps
* boiled, crushed egg shells
* oyster shell meal
sand, grit and fresh water

Moulting Formula Feed

* Raw shelled sunflower
* cooked/steamed squash
* steamed potato

and feed mix

Forced Moulting Feed Mix (if you aren't seeing signs your birds are moulting/resting)

reduce nutrients for one week. Moulting will reduce egg production, but healthier eggs will result later and healthier hens too following "rest" period during moulting.

Winter Feed (Mornings)

* Steamed potato
* garlic water (2 to 4x /winter. Note no other water can be offered when providing garlic water, so birds will drink this medicinal water)
* Spouts of wheat, oats, corn, & barley
* mesh bag hung from rafters during enclosed winter period, with potatoes, sugar beets, fresh kitchen scrap, cabbage, sweet corn on cobs.
(this is said to help reduce boredom & pecking of each other)


Winter Feed (evenings)
* feed mix (25% corn-50% wheat -25% barley)

GARLIC WATER Recipe
* made by finely chopped garlic cloves (5-10 cloves/3 pints of water), added to water. Boil. Let stand 24 hours, then provide to poultry.

Winter Dusting Box
*Sand mixed with wood ash.

She also warns that commercial bone meal and blood meal should not be fed to poultry due to the solvent perchlorethylene, which remains in small quantities in the meal. She said it can also be found in animal and fish meals. She recommends going to one's local butcher and asking for "fresh bone meal". She says this will give your birds protein, and minerals as well as phosphoric acid.

Anyone have any comments regarding her recommendations? I'd love to hear feed back?