Homemade chicken feed = later laying??

[FrankHomestead]

I'm curious as to how you get to 18% protein. I'm seeing a couple of ingredients such as the split peas and flax seeds that chickens do not hold in high regard.
I didn't mean that the feed will CONTAIN more protein, I meant that more of it will be absorbed by the chickens because fermented feed is more readily digested, at least that is what I've read time and time again. I forgot to mention my chickens forage all day, every day in their tractor, so they are also getting grass, weeds, bugs etc. I came up with the protein content by researching each individual grain & seed. I agree that chickens don't normally care for peas dried, but my chickens devour them when fermented. I would love to hear more feedback and opinions, as I'm really on the fence now. Clearly I'm doing something wrong when they look about a month younger than their actual age!

I also disagree that fermenting feed increases overall protein. The yeasts and bacteria responsible for the fermentation process themselves may posses protein but they also consume sugars and protein to ferment the feed. Saying that non fermented feed with a 18% protein contains more protein after being consumed by decomposers in the food chain is something I can't buy into. Poultry feed is not unique. It can not have more value at the end than at the beginning.

Production poultry are bred to churn out eggs. Chickens are not vegetarians. They are omnivores. A significant portion of their diet in a free range environment would come from animal proteins.

There are some tasks we have a cost advantage on and some we don't. We can't make a balanced feed as cheaply and we don't have the research staff and equipment to determine if the feed consumed is a balanced one.

I would suggest purchasing a commercial feed and then supplementing it with your own scratch. The scratch contributes to a larger more muscular gizzard which in turns allows the chickens to extract more nutrients from their mash or pellet feed.

I have close to 50 chickens in my flock. One fifty pound bag of commercial feed lasts 10 days when supplemented with my own scratch. I have marans and meat birds mixed. The marans start laying on schedule off and on right at 22 weeks. I'm starting to butcher the heritage meat birds (roosters) this weekend.

I have a pdf on my laptop that lists poultry feeds and protein content. I will post it when I get back there this evening.

 

[FrankHomestead]

I didn't mean that the feed will CONTAIN more protein, I meant that more of it will be absorbed by the chickens because fermented feed is more readily digested, at least that is what I've read time and time again. I forgot to mention my chickens forage all day, every day in their tractor, so they are also getting grass, weeds, bugs etc. I came up with the protein content by researching each individual grain & seed. I agree that chickens don't normally care for peas dried, but my chickens devour them when fermented. I would love to hear more feedback and opinions, as I'm really on the fence now. Clearly I'm doing something wrong when they look about a month younger than their actual age!
Sorry I had to repost my response Cus I didn't like the way I accidently put it in the middle of yours lol a tad confusing that way

 

[lazy gardener]

I'm curious as to how you get to 18% protein. I'm seeing a couple of ingredients such as the split peas and flax seeds that chickens do not hold in high regard.

I also disagree that fermenting feed increases overall protein. The yeasts and bacteria responsible for the fermentation process themselves may posses protein but they also consume sugars and protein to ferment the feed. Saying that non fermented feed with a 18% protein contains more protein after being consumed by decomposers in the food chain is something I can't buy into. Poultry feed is not unique. It can not have more value at the end than at the beginning.

Production poultry are bred to churn out eggs. Chickens are not vegetarians. They are omnivores. A significant portion of their diet in a free range environment would come from animal proteins.

There are some tasks we have a cost advantage on and some we don't. We can't make a balanced feed as cheaply and we don't have the research staff and equipment to determine if the feed consumed is a balanced one.

I would suggest purchasing a commercial feed and then supplementing it with your own scratch. The scratch contributes to a larger more muscular gizzard which in turns allows the chickens to extract more nutrients from their mash or pellet feed.

I have close to 50 chickens in my flock. One fifty pound bag of commercial feed lasts 10 days when supplemented with my own scratch. I have marans and meat birds mixed. The marans start laying on schedule off and on right at 22 weeks. I'm starting to butcher the heritage meat birds (roosters) this weekend.

I have a pdf on my laptop that lists poultry feeds and protein content. I will post it when I get back there this evening.

If you do the research on fermentation, you will find that in many cases, the biological action of the fermentation process DOES result in the end product containing more nutrition than the beginning product. Add to that, the fact that fermentation breaks down the anti-nutrients, making the nutrients in the fermented grain more bioavailable, and... if you are willing to read the research, and to do an honest trial, you will find that fermented feed is superior. Here's an excerpt from a published study (on fermentation) in the article written by Tikki Jane at the bottom of my signature:

Animal or plant tissues subjected to the action of microorganisms and/or enzymes to give desirable biochemical changes and significant modification of food quality are referred to as fermented foods (Campbell-Platt 1994). Fermentation is the oldest known form of food biotechnology; records of barley conversion to beer date back more than 5000 years (Borgstrom 1968). According to Steinkraus (1995), the traditional fermentation of foods serves several functions:

"1. Enrichment of the diet through development of a diversity of flavors, aromas, and textures in food substrates
2. Preservation of substantial amounts of food through lactic acid, alcoholic, acetic acid, and alkaline fermentations
3. Enrichment of food substrates biologically with protein, essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, and vitamins
4. Detoxification during food fermentation processing
5. A decrease in cooking times and fuel requirements"

Figure 4 – Influence of natural fermentation of cereals on available lysine.
Data from Hamad and Fields (1979)

Figure 5 – Influence of natural fermentation of cereals on the thiamine content.
Data from Chavan and Kadam (1989)
__________________________________________________________________
This information was gleaned from a quick perusal of the first study in Jane's article. I'm sure if the reader is interested in learning, there are many more facts presented in her article.

 

[FrankHomestead]

If you do the research on fermentation, you will find that in many cases, the biological action of the fermentation process DOES result in the end product containing more nutrition than the beginning product. Add to that, the fact that fermentation breaks down the anti-nutrients, making the nutrients in the fermented grain more bioavailable, and... if you are willing to read the research, and to do an honest trial, you will find that fermented feed is superior. Here's an excerpt from a published study (on fermentation) in the article written by Tikki Jane at the bottom of my signature:

Animal or plant tissues subjected to the action of microorganisms and/or enzymes to give desirable biochemical changes and significant modification of food quality are referred to as fermented foods (Campbell-Platt 1994). Fermentation is the oldest known form of food biotechnology; records of barley conversion to beer date back more than 5000 years (Borgstrom 1968). According to Steinkraus (1995), the traditional fermentation of foods serves several functions:

"1. Enrichment of the diet through development of a diversity of flavors, aromas, and textures in food substrates
2. Preservation of substantial amounts of food through lactic acid, alcoholic, acetic acid, and alkaline fermentations
3. Enrichment of food substrates biologically with protein, essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, and vitamins
4. Detoxification during food fermentation processing
5. A decrease in cooking times and fuel requirements"

Figure 4 – Influence of natural fermentation of cereals on available lysine.
Data from Hamad and Fields (1979)

Figure 5 – Influence of natural fermentation of cereals on the thiamine content.
Data from Chavan and Kadam (1989)

This information was gleaned from a quick perusal of the first study in Jane's article. I'm sure if the reader is interested in learning, there are many more facts presented in her article.

Thank you, this is what I meant I just didn't know how to word it lol

 

[FrankHomestead]

If you do the research on fermentation, you will find that in many cases, the biological action of the fermentation process DOES result in the end product containing more nutrition than the beginning product. Add to that, the fact that fermentation breaks down the anti-nutrients, making the nutrients in the fermented grain more bioavailable, and... if you are willing to read the research, and to do an honest trial, you will find that fermented feed is superior. Here's an excerpt from a published study (on fermentation) in the article written by Tikki Jane at the bottom of my signature:

Animal or plant tissues subjected to the action of microorganisms and/or enzymes to give desirable biochemical changes and significant modification of food quality are referred to as fermented foods (Campbell-Platt 1994). Fermentation is the oldest known form of food biotechnology; records of barley conversion to beer date back more than 5000 years (Borgstrom 1968). According to Steinkraus (1995), the traditional fermentation of foods serves several functions:

"1. Enrichment of the diet through development of a diversity of flavors, aromas, and textures in food substrates
2. Preservation of substantial amounts of food through lactic acid, alcoholic, acetic acid, and alkaline fermentations
3. Enrichment of food substrates biologically with protein, essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, and vitamins
4. Detoxification during food fermentation processing
5. A decrease in cooking times and fuel requirements"

Figure 4 – Influence of natural fermentation of cereals on available lysine.
Data from Hamad and Fields (1979)

Figure 5 – Influence of natural fermentation of cereals on the thiamine content.
Data from Chavan and Kadam (1989)

This information was gleaned from a quick perusal of the first study in Jane's article. I'm sure if the reader is interested in learning, there are many more facts presented in her article.

I'd like to hear your personal feedback on my feed mix if you could please
Also I forgot that chia seeds we're on the list, which I opted out because they were waaaay too expensive

 

[Folly's place]

Are your birds selecting out the yummy stuff, and leaving the rest? That's always a problem with whole seeds in feed rather than processed. Free choice ranging isn't necessarily going to get them what they need either. Some days it might, other times not so much. Production birds need what they need to do well! Mary

 

[FrankHomestead]

Are your birds selecting out the yummy stuff, and leaving the rest? That's always a problem with whole seeds in feed rather than processed. Free choice ranging isn't necessarily going to get them what they need either. Some days it might, other times not so much. Production birds need what they need to do well! Mary

They eat every bit of the feed, there isn't one tiny morsel left hahaha. I don't feed them until late evening when it's time to go back in the coop. if the feed was dry, they may not eat every bit but they love anything fermented

 

[Folly's place]

You feed in the morning too, right? They have feed available all the time? Or are they being underfed? Mary

 

[FrankHomestead]

You feed in the morning too, right? They have feed available all the time? Or are they being underfed? Mary

I put them in the tractor in the morning and bring them to a new spot full of weeds and grass, and they are fantastic foragers. They scratch constantly and find all kinds of goodies. I check on them throughout the day to make sure they don't run out of water, and if the spot looks too bare I drag them to a new spot. I also sometimes throw in some fresh fruit/veggies. At around 8:30 pm I bring them in the coop with their feed to top off any nutrients they didn't get from foraging. Would you say they are being underfed? Gah, I would feel terrible to know that was the case.

 

[Folly's place]

It's way better to offer a balanced feed all the time, and consider foraging, especially confined foraging, as a bonus. Mary