Honesty in advertising??

[Krys109uk]

I think it is a matter of expectations. The OP was understandably upset by finding they'd paid a lot of money, presumably in an auction, & found the birds were not as good as they expected. I'd think this happens very often. Probably no ill intent on the part of vendor.

There must be a certain level of risk involved in buying from online auctions. Some birds, I believe, are probably excellent & others less good.

Perhaps a safer way to go would be to look for breeder with a solid reputation, perhaps by word of mouth, & put ones name down on a waiting list.

 

[onthespot]

I'd say the same thing I said last time. You want perfect birds, go to the breeder, spend time with the flock, evaluate each and every trait to your heart's content. Cherry pick their flock and see what price they want to part with their very best birds out of a flock that lays golden eggs right now. If I remember you also did not want to travel far, did not want to pay much. Side sprigs are the result of two recessive genes interacting and NOT proof of penedesenca cross breeding, which I used to think it was. I was wrong. Feather legs is dominant, but it only takes one gene to cause feather leggs. Many marans can look feather legged, but with only one gene, they could possibly pass on the "blank" gene instead of the feather legs and poof, here you are. We all started with the same gamble you are taking. We all have hatched out less than stellar chicks. We all have shipped eggs and crossed our fingers, culled our flocks, or not culled and hatched eggs and start culling the next generation. The ball is now in your court. Do you cull your birds, and start over, so some other local buyer can get quality, top notch birds from you for "not a lot of money" or do you go with what you have, cull the next generation, disclose to buyers... Please do let us know what you decide to do with your birds. I for one would like to know. You are in it now. The shoe is on YOUR foot. What is your next move?

 

[mountaintopchicken]

Side sprigs are the result of two recessive genes interacting

I thought they were the result of two different dominant genes interacting?

Sorry to go OT.

I agree that the lack of quality in the birds does not necessarily mean the seller was being dishonest. It may be that the seller is just not as aware as he/she should be about the faults in their breeding stock.​

 

[onthespot]

In an earlier thread about sprigs, the genetics experts on that thread said the two genes were recessive, which is what makes breeding it out of a line such a nightmare. Even with test breeding every bird in your flock back to known, visual birds with side sprigs, you can keep getting it to pop up for generations, because you won't know which bird is carrying which gene. Can't see it, and it doesn't show unless both genes are present in the offspring, which they can get from either, or both, parents, that are birds with no sprigs, or that have them. Also the degree to which they develop. Some people would maybe breed a bird with tiny sprigs, thinking it doesn't matter as much, but I would think any sprig is equal, genetically, to any other sprig. Two genes, period. You either have both, or you don't. Sort of like Down Syndrome, some DS people are barely different from people with normal chromosome 21, and some are so VERY DIFFERENT that they are non-viable at birth. Same gene error, very different outcome in development.

 

[mountaintopchicken]

In an earlier thread about sprigs, the genetics experts on that thread said the two genes were recessive

I looked and looked for where I got that info. It was from blackdotte on a post on the yahoo Marans Chicken Club forum:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marans_Chicken_Club/message/14437

Also I found this link from the Journal of Heredity:

http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pdf_extract/17/8/281

"The results indicate that side sprigs are caused by two dominant factors complimentary in nature, so that both must be present for the character to appear"

I am the farthest thing from a genetics expert, I just have a real interest in sprigs and how to get rid of them. Why? Because they have reared their ugly heads in my flock.....

Hope this wasn't a total thread hijack!​

 

[onthespot]

Thanks for finding that.

If the traits are dominant, then they must be invisible unless combined with the other gene. How can you even know if your birds even carry one of those genes?

Therefore, to get back to the original point of this thread, how could a breeder be penalized for not knowing he had an invisible dominant bad trait in his flock?

The original poster still has not posted what they will do, now that they are left holding the bag on birds they are not completely satisfied with. Do you just sell them, and not disclose the invisible dominant defect? Do you give them away, and does giving them away change anything different from selling them, ethics wise? Do you eat them? Do you keep them and never breed them, just a defective marans museum until they die of old age?

It is very easy to cast stones and aspersions, but when the ball is in your court, it isn't so simple as that.

I ask again of the original poster, "What will you do with your birds? Do you plan to sell eggs? Sell the birds? Give them away? Eat the birds? Destroy the birds and not eat them?"

I would really like to know the answer to this question, in their own words, from the original poster, not what everyone else thinks they should do, but what they WILL actually do with these birds?