Hopefully a challenge!

[fluffycrow]

I believe frizzle Cochin is exact - but I might be wrong.

We throw them meat scraps, and id assume he gets them because he is the alpha dog in the bantam coop. But I can probably try to get him some directly, good idea.

They do look like cochins mixes, whether that is frizzle or frazzle (I'm not sure). As for the meat, I've heard some aseel keepers supplying a small amount of cat food in the feed, in addition to the meat scraps. So that's an idea, not very scientifically based though, so maybe don't take my word for it

 

[NatJ]

@NatJ

Ok, now the case is cracked.

Red frizzle Roo x golden seabright hen.

If I wants to replicate this chick, but with a crest. Is that possible? I have a ton of crested birds to choose from.

So basically my wife saw this bird, and was in love with it. I am trying to replicate it, but obviously with a gold seabright.

Yes, that should be possible. I can't see whether it has feathered feet or not (Cochin crosses will generally have feathered feet).
Do you care about comb type?

Polish have a crest and have several laced varieties, so I think that would be the logical breed to cross with. If your current frizzle x Sebright grows up to have frizzle feathers, you could cross it to a laced Polish and probably get some chicks that are about right.

Or if you could find a frizzled Polish, you might not have to do any crossing at all, if you don't mind having a V-comb rather than the rose comb of the bird in the photo.

 

[BastyPutt]

Yes, that should be possible. I can't see whether it has feathered feet or not (Cochin crosses will generally have feathered feet).
Do you care about comb type?

Polish have a crest and have several laced varieties, so I think that would be the logical breed to cross with. If your current frizzle x Sebright grows up to have frizzle feathers, you could cross it to a laced Polish and probably get some chicks that are about right.

Or if you could find a frizzled Polish, you might not have to do any crossing at all, if you don't mind having a V-comb rather than the rose comb of the bird in the photo.

As usual, this is great info. Yes - black (dark) feathered legs.

We have quite a few laced polish to chose from.

And no, I won't worry too much about the comb. We tried frizzle x Polish a few times, but couldn't get all three - the lacing, the frizzle and the crest. This is why I went a different route.

Genetically, will it matter if this turns out to be a pullet or cockerel?

 

[BastyPutt]

@BastyPutt ahhh mannnnnn! I'm late to the answer party but promise sebright cross was my first guess.

After black and white EEs, my other fixation is Lakenvelder pattern but I want additional head/tail colors other than black.

Awesome you got your designer peep on the ground!

Thanks House!

Lakenvelder is one that I have never had. Nice looking birds though.

 

[NatJ]

Genetically, will it matter if this turns out to be a pullet or cockerel?

It will only matter if you are working with genes on the Z sex chromsome.

Those would include:
gold/silver
barring
dark vs. light legs
chocolate

If all the birds involved are gold, and not-barred, and not-chocolate, then you don't have to think about those genes. They will keep breeding true for those traits.

If you want dark legs and not light ones, the genders will matter a bit. You can work with anything, but figuring out the details can make it go more smoothly.

You understand about chicken sex chromsomes, right? A hen only has one Z chromsome, so she shows whatever is on it. She inherits it from her father and passes it on to her sons. A rooster has two Z sex chromosomes, one from each parent, and gives one to each chick. Light legs are dominant over dark legs, so a dark-legged rooster must be pure for that recessive gene, while a light-legged rooster may carry the gene for dark (if he got it from his mother or from his father.)

If you breed dark legs x dark legs, all chicks will have dark legs.

A pure light-legged rooster x light-legged hen produces light legs.

If you cross the leg colors, sons will show light legs while carrying the gene for dark legs, while daughters will match their father.

A light-legged rooster who carries the gene for dark legs will produce 50% light-legged daughters and 50% dark-legged daughters, no matter what leg color their mother has. With a dark-legged hen he will produce 50% dark-legged sons and 50% light legged sons who carry dark (like himself.) With a light-legged hen he will produce only light-legged sons, but half will carry the gene for dark legs and half will be pure for light legs.

I would expect Cochins to have light legs, with Sebrights and Polish having dark legs, but looking at your own birds will be more accurate than me guessing from what the breeds are "supposed" to have.

 

[BastyPutt]

It will only matter if you are working with genes on the Z sex chromsome.

Those would include:
gold/silver
barring
dark vs. light legs
chocolate

If all the birds involved are gold, and not-barred, and not-chocolate, then you don't have to think about those genes. They will keep breeding true for those traits.

If you want dark legs and not light ones, the genders will matter a bit. You can work with anything, but figuring out the details can make it go more smoothly.

You understand about chicken sex chromsomes, right? A hen only has one Z chromsome, so she shows whatever is on it. She inherits it from her father and passes it on to her sons. A rooster has two Z sex chromosomes, one from each parent, and gives one to each chick. Light legs are dominant over dark legs, so a dark-legged rooster must be pure for that recessive gene, while a light-legged rooster may carry the gene for dark (if he got it from his mother or from his father.)

If you breed dark legs x dark legs, all chicks will have dark legs.

A pure light-legged rooster x light-legged hen produces light legs.

If you cross the leg colors, sons will show light legs while carrying the gene for dark legs, while daughters will match their father.

A light-legged rooster who carries the gene for dark legs will produce 50% light-legged daughters and 50% dark-legged daughters, no matter what leg color their mother has. With a dark-legged hen he will produce 50% dark-legged sons and 50% light legged sons who carry dark (like himself.) With a light-legged hen he will produce only light-legged sons, but half will carry the gene for dark legs and half will be pure for light legs.

I would expect Cochins to have light legs, with Sebrights and Polish having dark legs, but looking at your own birds will be more accurate than me guessing from what the breeds are "supposed" to have.

I think this is best explanation I have seen. Probably because I actually understand it. I had to read it 35 times, but I understand it. Thank you for taking the time to type that out.

I'm working it around in my head as it applies to sex linking, and I think that makes sense now. But let me see....

In order to sex link, you need a hen with a dominant gene, and a male with two recessive genes. So white female to red male, the son will end up with rhe dominant gene from the mother, where the daughter ends up with the fathers recessive gene. But red hen to white rooster, all the chicks will be red.

I suppose learning which genes are which spectrum and which are dominant would be a good place to start understanding it better.

This does also explain the outcomes percentages of blue breeding. 25/25/50

 

[NatJ]

I think this is best explanation I have seen. Probably because I actually understand it. I had to read it 35 times, but I understand it. Thank you for taking the time to type that out.

I'm working it around in my head as it applies to sex linking, and I think that makes sense now. But let me see....

In order to sex link, you need a hen with a dominant gene, and a male with two recessive genes. So white female to red male, the son will end up with rhe dominant gene from the mother, where the daughter ends up with the fathers recessive gene. But red hen to white rooster, all the chicks will be red.

I suppose learning which genes are which spectrum and which are dominant would be a good place to start understanding it better.

This does also explain the outcomes percentages of blue breeding. 25/25/50

Yes, I think you have it right.

Once I understood how it worked, I really admired how simple the sex-linkage is to work with:
--the father needs the recessive gene. You can tell he has two copies of it just by looking at him, because that is how recessive genes work.
--the mother needs the dominant gene. You can tell that by looking at her, because with only one Z chromsome there is no way for her to hide anything else.

And then the sons show the dominant (inherited from the mother) while the daughters show the recessive and the sons carry it (both inheriting that from the father.)

So you don't even have to know the background of the birds to pick your breeding stock for sex-linked matings, as long as there are not other genes to confuse the effects. (Just to be clear: Dominant White or recessive white can be a problem if you are trying to check for silver or barring, so it is a little more complicated than "just look at the chickens.")

Edit to add: Oops, you do have one detail wrong.

red hen to white rooster, all the chicks will be red.

No, because red (gold gene) is the recessive. White rooster (Silver gene, dominant trait) will produce white (silver) chicks of both genders.

 

[BastyPutt]

No, because red (gold gene) is the recessive. White rooster (Silver gene, dominant trait) will produce white (silver) chicks of both genders.

Yes, got it. Dominant gene is
going to take precedent, and this works because mom gives son the gene. So a female clearly will be the recessive color because she only gives son the gene. In the above paring, moms gene to the son is washed because dad is dominant! YES! YES! Literally a lightbulb just clicked. Not sure I can say I have ever had such an Epiphany in my life as this moment!

Once I understood how it worked, I really admired how simple the sex-linkage is to work with:
--the father needs the recessive gene. You can tell he has two copies of it just by looking at him, because that is how recessive genes work.
--the mother needs the dominant gene. You can tell that by looking at her, because with only one Z chromsome there is no way for her to hide anything else.

Yes - I believe i just experienced what you, and probably everyone else has.

Thank you again Nat for always being so thorough in your explanations. I really do appreciate it!

 

[NatJ]

YES! YES! Literally a lightbulb just clicked. Not sure I can say I have ever had such an Epiphany in my life as this moment!

It is a wonderful feeling when that happens

 

[BastyPutt]

Hatched a silver version this morning. Attributes look identical at the moment to the gold. We've got a few more golds too. All look to be the same