Hoping to use this site for good chicken advice

[WindsorGurl]

Do you have a farm supply store near by? If you do- you might want to call ahead- see if they have any 16 gauge needles. If you can find a 14 gauge, get that instead- but try to make it at least 16 gauge- generally they're in the cattle section. I'll post my favorite video about how to drain the abdomen- the one that gave me courage to help my bird and confidence that I wasn't causing harm to her in the process. You'll find a lot of videos where people have tiny needles- 18, 20 and so on- the bigger the number, the smaller the hole, and they go from area to area in the abdomen, inserting the needle multiple times, drawing out small amounts.

Think of it this way- how hard is it to suck a thick milkshake through a tiny straw? The bigger the hole in the needle, the easier it will drain- especially if you have thick material- and you should only have to poke her ONE TIME in an area where you're not going to nick anything. If it doesn't come up as linked below, go to youtube and search for "You won't believe what came out of this hen"

You'll also need a syringe- I like the 35ml kind, if they have the kind that will fit the needle. So many places only sell that size with the "feeder" top on it.

Chances are good that either she's laying internally and it's turned into EYP as others have noted. You can't cure it- but you CAN potentially make her SO much more comfortable. I had a hen start down this road in fall - we kept her drained - but the day did come this spring when she just stood in a corner - and I kept my promise to help her when she wasn't able to enjoy her life anymore.

You'll learn a lot by what comes out of her abdomen. If it's thick yellow puss, she won't have long- but you can help her be comfortable by draining her regularly. If it's clear but amber to some variety of yellow, there's probably something else going on - either way you can help her be comfortable.

How do I know if she has fluid build up or if it's a mass built up from internal laying? The other video showed solid masses that were taken out of the hen. I'm not sure I could do this myself but I would certainly have the vet do it if she in fact has fluid built up.

 

[rebrascora]

@Shezadandy

I had not seen that video on draining ascites before. It is by far the best one I have seen. She explains it perfectly and is so clear about how she is going about it. Better than the videos of vets doing it, that I have seen. Many thanks for posting it.
The thing to know with internal laying is that the fluid will sink to the bottom because it is heaviest and the egg yolks will float above, so if it is ascites due to internal laying and you get thick egg yolk material you have probably gone in too deep with the needle or too high up. It really needs to be a short needle in the lowest point of the belly.

@WindsorGurl
If we are right and she is laying internally then the chances are that she also has some fluid build up (ascites) The video that @KikisGirls posted shows images of lash eggs from Salpingitis rather than internal laying where you find flattish yellow discs from the yolks. Often the oviduct gets impacted with lash egg from Salpingitis and the eggs get backed up behind it until the yolks start dropping into the abdominal cavity so you end up with internal laying as a result of salpingitis but sometimes the ovary and oviduct become misaligned and the yolks drop into the abdominal cavity even though the oviduct is clear. Usually salpingitis will become serious after a few weeks whereas straightforward internal laying can go on for months or even years because the yolks from the oviduct have a smaller volume than a more fully developed egg and pus material in the oviduct. Also the yolks dropping into the abdominal cavity are less likely to be infected, so whilst the mass of them and the fluid is a physical problem, they can often sit there for long periods of time quite inertly without becoming infected.
Usually you can feel the difference between fluid and a solid mass, so be guided by your gut instinct.
There certainly can be some immediate relief from draining ascites, particularly if it is starting to cause respiratory distress but you have to be prepared for the bird to possibly go into shock from the sudden pressure drop or develop an infection as a result of the needle insertion and die. What you have to remember is that the bird is going to die anyway, so you are just trying to buy her time and quality of life. If you do nothing she will die anyway. I'm not sure I could justify the expense of taking a hen with possible ascites to the vets to be drained because for the hundred plus dollars, you are only buying her a few extra weeks of life and it may not be successful anyway. Of course only you can make that decision based on your finances and emotional attachment and your ability or otherwise to drain her yourself.

 

[Shezadandy]

Yes- I watched many, many videos before taking a needle to my little lady- and this was by far the most instructive with the best experience for the hen.

As for my (now deceased) little hen -- it was done with a 1" 14 gauge needle (the shortest I could find) at the lowest point of the right side of the abdomen. I even enlisted DH to hold her each time to ensure I had full control over depth and location, and it was all yellowy puss from that day until her final day. She did perk up substantially after all the drainings. There did of course come the day when we knew it was over and time to help her along to her next life.

Since then, I drained a very old hen for a friend- clearly organ failure around age 8 - and that was the expected clear stuff - same technique, same gauge and length of needle. Of course it didn't save her life, but it did make her much more comfortable.

@Shezadandy

I had not seen that video on draining ascites before. It is by far the best one I have seen. She explains it perfectly and is so clear about how she is going about it. Better than the videos of vets doing it, that I have seen. Many thanks for posting it.
The thing to know with internal laying is that the fluid will sink to the bottom because it is heaviest and the egg yolks will float above, so if it is ascites due to internal laying and you get thick egg yolk material you have probably gone in too deep with the needle or too high up. It really needs to be a short needle in the lowest point of the belly.

 

[Shezadandy]

=

How do I know if she has fluid build up or if it's a mass built up from internal laying? The other video showed solid masses that were taken out of the hen. I'm not sure I could do this myself but I would certainly have the vet do it if she in fact has fluid built up.

If you're not comfortable trying it yourself, I would consider having it done by a vet if you feel like you might be able to do yourself if you're shown in person.

Around here we don't have an abundance (hardly any, and they're all what I affectionately call HMO vets) of vets willing to touch chickens, so we've had to do things by necessity, and as rebrascora mentioned - it's a lot of money on a chicken who is likely not going to live a whole lot longer.

Or- if you have a friend you trust to show you how and/or do it for you - less expensive that way!! I've poked many animals in my day- horses, cats, goats, dogs- but I watched a lot of videos before taking a needle to a chicken, because that was the first time with a chicken and birds are quite different.

 

[WindsorGurl]

Update on my girl. She unfortunately passed away on the 4th of July. I did have a necropsy done by my vet and she was diagnosed with Salpingitis (inflammation of the oviduct). I included a picture from the necropsy below.

Based on the information I received and what I read online she most likely had an infection in the oviduct that led to salpingitis, which then led to oviduct impaction (or yolk bound), and the oviduct impaction caused egg yolk peritonitis. Not 100% positive about the peritonitis but it's likely. This ultimately led to her demise.

It may have been treatable early on with antibiotics or anti-inflammatories, maybe around the time when she stopped laying (over a year ago)?? I'm sure those would not have helped at the point where she started to show symptoms (2 months ago). Also read that there's an implant called Suprelorin that can stop ovulation (egg production) when this condition occurs. Another option could have been a hysterectomy. Though a hysterectomy at this stage in the illness would have probably been risky. Unfortunately, like most chicken illnesses, this condition would have been hard to diagnose early on since she didn't have any symptoms other than she wasn't laying. I always assumed she stopped laying due to natural causes. Never thought it could be due to a condition or illness.

There was no fluid in the abdomen so I guess it was a good thing that I didn't try to drain her. I don't believe my white leghorn passed from the same condition. I just think they had some similar symptoms. She remains a mystery, though I believe it was a liver condition.

I feel bad that I don't know enough about chicken illnesses and that I wasn't able to help either of my girls, but I am learning. Hoping to avoid this in the future if possible. I am glad however that it appears to not be something contagious.

Thanks again to everyone who took a moment to offer advise and kind words.

 

[Kiki]

Update on my girl. She unfortunately passed away on the 4th of July. I did have a necropsy done by my vet and she was diagnosed with Salpingitis (inflammation of the oviduct). I included a picture from the necropsy below.

Based on the information I received and what I read online she most likely had an infection in the oviduct that led to salpingitis, which then led to oviduct impaction (or yolk bound), and the oviduct impaction caused egg yolk peritonitis. Not 100% positive about the peritonitis but it's likely. This ultimately led to her demise.

It may have been treatable early on with antibiotics or anti-inflammatories, maybe around the time when she stopped laying (over a year ago)?? I'm sure those would not have helped at the point where she started to show symptoms (2 months ago). Also read that there's an implant called Suprelorin that can stop ovulation (egg production) when this condition occurs. Another option could have been a hysterectomy. Though a hysterectomy at this stage in the illness would have probably been risky. Unfortunately, like most chicken illnesses, this condition would have been hard to diagnose early on since she didn't have any symptoms other than she wasn't laying. I always assumed she stopped laying due to natural causes. Never thought it could be due to a condition or illness.

There was no fluid in the abdomen so I guess it was a good thing that I didn't try to drain her. I don't believe my white leghorn passed from the same condition. I just think they had some similar symptoms. She remains a mystery, though I believe it was a liver condition.

I feel bad that I don't know enough about chicken illnesses and that I wasn't able to help either of my girls, but I am learning. Hoping to avoid this in the future if possible. I am glad however that it appears to not be something contagious.

Thanks again to everyone who took a moment to offer advise and kind words.

View attachment 1465192

I am sorry for your loss.
Thank you for sharing!
This will help the next person learn too.

 

[rebrascora]

Many thanks for updating this thread with the results. I'm sorry you lost your girl but clearly from the necropsy photo it was inevitable. Yes, those are typical "lash eggs" as a result of salpingitis and they build up in the oviduct causing an impaction. Usually the mass of them becomes so large that it presses on the hind gut and prevents the bird from pooping and the build up of waste inside them, poisons them.

There are people that use Superlorin implants to prevent ovulation in birds that suffer reproductive ailments like this but they need to be replaced every 3-6 months and run at about $100-$150 a time including vets fees, so not something that everyone can afford to finance and of course, need to be administered before things get too bad.