Horse people... Remember I was looking for a new mount for DD?

[ducks4you]

She looks very nice--calm, willing and well-broken. My Vet charges $55.00 for a Vet check--can you get one, just to be sure? She looks pretty balanced, and your DD doesn't really need a world class jumper, just a willing one. It seems as if EVERYBODY jumps their breed of horse now, at least the 18 inch and 2 footers. My ONLY concern is, have you seen this mare worked on trails? If she demonstrates that, I say buy her.

 

[EweSheep]

I love trail horses and on her downtime, take her out on the trails and see what she is really made of!

 

[jmhappycowboy]

Nice looking mare, and I would agree with the others that she is the best looking one you've posted so far. Also on her color, I think you'll find she is a Black and White. I have a Black and White Tobiano mare that stays in the pasture all the time and her black color is bleached out now and is even I would say probably a little lighter than this mare. Come winter time when she puts on her winter coat I think you'll see a Black/White mare and a beautiful one at that.

 

[Anguissette]

I agree with jm on the color issue. I have a very dark bay mare who looks black in the winter and early spring only to bleach out so much people ask if she is grulla during the summer. Only "non fading" blacks don't bleach with enough sun exposure.

 

[seymore0626]

She looks really sickle hocked and back at the knee, which can pesent issues if you are jumping. How old is she? I'd want to take her on trial. She doesn't look all that broke. I'd have to keep looking, but then we looked for two years, and now 13 years ( and many, many jumps and shows later) we still have him!!!

Have you considered a lease?

 

[buckeyejerseygiants]

Quote:
I agree. I have to say I'm really surprised and confused at the board's reaction to the last horse and all the positive feedback with this one. She clearly has a quiet and tolerant attitude but she looks very inexperienced and plain sloppy at best. As is, she wouldn't even stand a chance on the rail at the 4-H shows around here.

In the end you can always send a horse to a trainer, but you can't fix how they look or move. If your DD ever wants to do anything besides trail riding and 4-H on just one horse I would definitely pass.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Well you asked for opinions.

And here's mine (ducks and runs): Absolutely and most emphatically no. Absolutely does not scream 4h to me. Too big a stride, too unbalanced, too hard to ride, too green, too easily made quick and tense, and that's all in a tiny little enclosed space.

First of all, though she'd probably never admit it, your daughter looks terrified up there, absolutely terrified. She is really clutching and looks very, very off balance and uncertain.

Your daughter cannot handle the mare's gaits, the mare does not actually have so much suspension, but she has a very long, loopy off balance stride. Most of the time she goes with her back hollowed out making her even harder to sit and control. She can barely get her past the gate, she was having trouble steering her even in that very small area, and when she tried to canter everything fell apart completely.

So from me, it's what people call 'No, no, no and no'. Not a good match for your child. Gaits are too big, horse is too green, too strong, very intolerant and sensitive to rider mistakes, and gets irritated and quick very easily. She could not control her in the canter and the horse stopped at the gate. ALL the problems will get worse when you take the horse home.

Next big strike, horse has not been shown. I would never buy a horse for a kid to show that had not been shown. The horse was shown to you in a tiny enclosed space, without any other horses or activity around, and she was still having a tough time with her. Horses that are only trail ridden don't get used to all the hustle and bustle of a show.

I'd also like to suggest that if this horse is this green and has not been shown by 7, something is not so easy about her. If she was appropriate for kids to show she probably would have been doing that for the last 4 years.

Your daughter needs a mare that is a smaller step up from her little Morab. But she also needs a horse that all by itself, is steady and rhythmic.

After seeing this and the other horse you've looked at, and seeing your daughter ride both, I think you are heading toward way, way over-horsing your daughter. Your daughter needs a quiet, slow, steady horse that all by itself maintains a smooth, rhythmic but fairly short stride, that has been shown, and is dead quiet at the shows, that she can learn her position on and get stronger and more steady, not a big strong big striding horse she has to train.

I would recommend you look for a 'been there done that' horse in its late teens, that has been doing exactly what your daughter wants to do, in exactly that same kind of show, is not so different from her Morab (smaller stride) and keeps a steady, even rhythm all by itself and does not speed up or get quick in any situation.

I would recommend you make sure that when your daughter tries a horse, she tries it in a BIG ring with other horses and riders, trucks and trailers coming and going and all sorts of activity around, and that she can do everything with the horse required in a show without a single blip or problem. I would recommend the try out includes riding the horse around the grounds of the stable, outside of any fence, on a totally loose rein, and can ride her to the barn and away from it. The horse will stand on a loose rein on the way back to the barn, and other people on horses can ride around him and he won't be upset by it.

When someone has her try a horse in a tiny ring with no one else around and a rule of greater silence, you have to think, why IS that. It's because the seller or agent thinks that the minute the horse gets in a REAL situation the kid won't be able to controll the horse. If she really is a 'trail horse' why isn't the kid trying her out on trails? Maybe because sometimes, 'trail horse' is translated in horse seller talk to 'very little training of any kind'.

And that when she rides it, she does not sit the horse like she's sitting this one, that she is calm, relaxed and confident, and even, that she feels the horse is TOO easy to control.

There are so many nice horses like this in pony club, that go from family to family, teaching kid after kid. Please, please, please, do not over-horse your daughter.

 

[Bec]

I agree 100% with welsummerchicks. Those are exactly all of my thoughts as well. Nicely said welsummer

A been there done that kind of horse is what you need for your daughter to progress forward with what she wants to do. A kid that is learning herself doesn't need to be teaching a horse as she learns. You will find the right one, there are so many out there...it's just finding them that is hard

 

[mom'sfolly]

It's been a while since my horsey time, but I'd have some concerns about this horse and your daughter showing it. The horse is agitated the entire time your daughter is riding, her tail says she is seriously unhappy. She doesn't respond well to your daughter's cues, and her attention is constantly outside the arena. She watches the dog go by, she slows when she sees the folks at the gate, she reacts to the horses outside in the pasture. Very little of her attention actually seems to be on her rider. I don't know if this is due to the horse's inexperience or your daughter's, or a combination of circumstances. I think it would take many hours for her to be a good show prospect for your daughter; and her reactions to the dog make me wonder how good she would be on the trail....

But she appears far sounder than the last prospect you posted.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Very respectfully, in some riding sports the tail is thought to be the be all/end all of behavioral 'flags' (no pun). So many people think that way that in some riding sports, trainers, when interviewed will say that 95% or more of their show horses get a 'tail block' before they go into the show ring - medication injected into the tail so it can't even be twitched. Sometimes the tail muscles are evey purposely damaged so the animal can't flick its tail.

The way I look at it, that's kind of a popular idea, but I wouldn't judge a horse's mentition totally by looking at its tail. I'd try to widen out and look at the WHOLE picture - balance, the back, neck, use of the mouth and jaw, looseness and suppleness of the muscles, how steady the rhythm is.

Mares do in fact tend to swish their tail every time you use your leg or spur, that's just a mare thing. As they get better trained, that improves too.

But the thing is, it doesn't look like that video, that kind of motion is nervousness and tension and loss of balance. Also, I think the girl is goosing the horse with her leg, she's tipped very forward and I believe is clutching with her leg. Which tends to make mares especially switch their tail.

But I don't just look at the tail, I look at the overall picture, and the tail is just a part of it. The other parts are very quick rhythm, hollowing out the back, losing its balance toward the inside of the ring, which not only says easily tenses up and gets tight, it says green and not well trained.

I was really having a chuckle at some of the comments the seller was making. As my dad (Georgia native) used to say, 'Lord save us from carpetbaggers and horse traders'.

Your daughter needs a horse that is so called 'stabilized'. This is a horse that is taught to keep a steady, metronome-like rhythm, even when the rein is completely loose and there is no feel from the rider's hand to the horse's mouth, even when the rider shifts about trying to find his balance.


I think parents tend to generally, over-estimate what their kids can handle. I also think they don't spot all of what's going on when a kid tries a horse out.

And there is the money. It is so tempting to try and save some money and pick up a cheap horse. The irony is, that those seasoned horses are out there, often for free leases. But you have to know some people and network. And they have to feel confident with the person who wants to take the horse.

I meet so many parents who are delighted with the 'great deal' they got at the race track, or the unshown, untrained horse a dealer 'just happened to have'. Caveat emptor, caveat emptor. Sellers know how to tire out or medicate a horse before the try out, so it looks ok during a brief ride in an enclosed place, or they know how to set up the situation, such as picking a very quiet time at the barn or telling others not to ride.

It's not at all unusual for a responsible seller to START the try out in a small ring, just to be sure the rider is along far enough to ride outside the ring. BUT BE SUSPICIOUS of a try out that MUST take place ENTIRELY in a tiny ring, with the gate shut, and all activity at the farm mysteriously quiet.

Most sellers know right away, whether the rider can handle the horse or not, and they are usually clever enough to insist 'oh, our insurance won't allow us to let buyers trail ride or hack', or some other such nonsense, if they are getting the inkling the horse is too much for the rider.

MANY know right from the situation, that their horse is not anywhere near suitable; they know the horse is green and quick and gets tense and strong. And you can bet a very good lunch, that they know how to conceal a lot of what the horse really is. They can put the horse in a very sharp bit for a few days, for example, so it's backed off the bit and not pulling during your child's ride.

Training horses is really a matter that is quite often, for most people, best left up to professionals. It is hard, and sometimes even very rough work. It is not for a person who gets intimidated easily or backs down easily. Horses don't respond well to brutality and lost tempers, but they also know when someone doesn't feel confident and they take advantage.

Everyone tries to put a real pretty face on it, but getting a horse used to odd sights and sounds, teaching him to not run back to the barn because something startled him a little, teaching him to not buck simply because the horse next to him does it, taking him to his first show, these are really not as easy as they look.

There are horses that are easy, and make great kid's horses. Kids break 'em, trail ride 'em, and show 'em and get ribbons in 4h.

This one might be there in three or four years or someone putting in quite a bit of hard work, or it might not. A lot of times, if a horse gets to be seven or eight and green, unshown and unschooled, someone found out already that something is not so easy about him or her.

Sure once in a while it is because the horse just sat around and the owner had no time, but keep in mind, for every 100 times you hear that story, 90 times it's baloney from a pinhooker and 10 times it's true.