Horse Talk

[Eggsoteric]

How often did you check on them? Did you visit the facility prior to sending them to see for yourself the conditions they would be kept in?

 

[res]

I would go get Indie, but you will likely need to pay her for the "training" she did if you take him back.

I am so sorry things turned out like they did... this is an example of why my horses never go anywhere that I cannot visit every few days. Too many chances of *something* happening to them without my knowledge.

GOOD trainers are GOOD HORSEMEN above all else, and would never let a horse in training deteriorate to this condition. It is absolutely true that a green horse that is starting training looses weight, BUT!!! a good horseman realizes this and increases feed BEFORE they reach this condition.

June's mane being that damaged is a sure sign they were not being fed enough, and she was desperately reaching through the fence to grab something on the other side, OR that the trainer was using "cattle" style round bale feeders. I have seen horses damage that section of mane to the point that the hair never grows back properly... My 42-yr old had damage like that when I bought him 21 yrs ago, and has never grown more than 2" of hair in that section.

 

[ShrekDawg]

I agree, although I wonder if maybe because they're usually on pasture they weren't used to the grain and/or were stressed being in a new and weren't eating too? BUT. There is still absolutely no excuse because if that were the case, she should have called you and told you and asked what they like that she could add or something and/or she should have tried different foods etc.

But all that said, I don't even think it's that they weren't eating, I think she just didn't feed them nearly enough

 

[abigalerose]

I talked to her and she has apologized and even agreed to bring Indie back to me. She offered to pay their feed bill while I'm putting weight back on them but I told her not to worry about it, I just wanted Indie back. She's going to sign a bill of sale tomorrow, so I just have to hope that she keeps her word for one more night.
I could completely understand a green horse losing some weight, when I started June last year she was pretty chubby and after working with her almost every day throughout the summer she lost little weight, but she didn't look like this, she looked like a muscly in shape horse, when I was working with her last year she had grain and grass, before her and Reno left last month they were only on grass and looked great, and I sent grain with the trainer and she said they'd have grain, pasture, and hay every day. Obviously they did not or they wouldn't have dropped weight like this. She claimed that she gave Reno half of a 5 gallon bucket every day. But she also said later that the horses were on her parents property and they were suppose to feed them when she wasn't there and that she didn't get over there as often as she should have. Soo... if she wasn't going over and feeding them, then he definitely wasn't eating half a bucket worth of grain a day. And if she wasn't there to feed them then I don't know if they got any training done either.
Basically I think they've all been standing in a dry lot for month, probably getting fed and trained one day a week, and reaching through the fence the rest of the time.
And I really hope June's mane grows back there, not just because I want it to look nice, but if it's messed up there forever it's going to be a constant reminder of this ordeal.

 

[abigalerose]

I agree, although I wonder if maybe because they're usually on pasture they weren't used to the grain and/or were stressed being in a new and weren't eating too? BUT. There is still absolutely no excuse because if that were the case, she should have called you and told you and asked what they like that she could add or something and/or she should have tried different foods etc.

But all that said, I don't even think it's that they weren't eating, I think she just didn't feed them nearly enough

Oh I didn't see this until just now, but I agree, kinda. I think they were getting grain on the days she was there, but I don't think they ever had hay, and I don't think they were in a pasture with grass very often. When I picked up everything was muddy, but it's been flooding here. So I don't know how much access they had for grazing during the month. They could look worse, so I think they were fed some, but not even close to enough. And if I had someone's horses and was feeding them like I was suppose to and they were still dropping weight like this, I'd be calling the owner so we could find a different feed or check for ulcers or SOMETHING, she never once said anything about their weight. she didn't mention that June ripped her hair out or that they had a whole bunch of scrapes either.

That time I worked with that crazy two year old for the crazy lady in the town over from me, she got a cut above her eye and I totally lost my mind over it, I cried, I called the vet, I called her owner, all over one accidental cut. And I religiously went out every day and applied some special goop that her owner recommended, every single day, twice a day, even though the horse was an absolutely looney toon and it took me 30 minutes to catch her and calm her down before I even got to apply the goop. And I probably apologized 100 times for it.
I forget sometimes that other people aren't always like me, when I have someone else's animal I treat it like I would treat my own, not everyone is like that though, and I'm naive about that sometimes.
Although, with Indie being as skinny as he is, I guess she was treating my horses like she treats her own. Ugh.
I just hope I really do get him back. And I hope she didn't do anything weird while "training" the horses to make them fearful.
And I hope June's mane grows back.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Yeah exactly, if someone's horse, dog, etc. Got in that bad of shape with that many wounds I would be so upset and probably crying and call the owner right away. But I also would never ever let someone's animal get in that shape to begin with. Not even a pet rat haha

But at least she was apologetic and it seems partly her parents fault too? How could they not feed animals and let them starve? Wth?

But it's also her fault because she should have asked them at least a few times if they fed them and she should have made SURE they did. And been over there wayyyyy more often if she was "training" them.....

 

[abigalerose]

More her fault than theirs, since they were her responsiblity and she was just using their place. And it's her "business". But yeah I don't understand how even her parents could see them starving and not do anything. But when I got there, there was a couple dogs running around that were all ribby too.
I just can't believe I got three great reviews on her and that her vet didn't have any concerns.
I partially blame myself too for not being more thorough.
But on a happier note, she says she will send me the signed bill of sale tomorrow around 4, and she's going to bring Indie back to me on Sunday.
And I'm going tomorrow to buy soy bean meal, rice bran, and some regular grain to mix it with and start them all on it, even Jasmine just because it'll help her grow a bit too, and biotin for June's mane, and I'll probably give all of them that too, and coconut oil for June's bald spot, and some salve for the scrapes, they're not bad but I want them to heal as fast as possible, and June does have an open cut above her hoof that could use some. I'm also going to get some wormer and worm them, and pick up some mineral blocks as well.
Once I get back from vacation, around the 11th, they should be lookin pretty good again, so I'll start some light work and see if they actually learned anything. According to her, June is neck reining, responding to leg cues, loping better, and has been worked over different obstacles, and Reno has been riding at a walk and trot, and been out on a couple short trail rides. Hopefully at least all that is true, it'll give me one less thing to worry about. And I'm just going to start Indie myself once I get him back and he puts his weight back on, his ground work was pretty much done when he left, and she claims she kept him up on it.
So, we'll see how it goes.
And sorry for all the long posts, I'll try to post shorter updates from now on.

 

[PeepersMama]

Don't feel like you have to keep the posts short! Details are fine.
That's just.... Dumb, as mom would say. Some people don't really think through horses needs before they commit.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Sounds like you have a great plan and I hope they all put on weight quickly and actually learned what she said!

And yeah, that's true. Even if they were kept there, she could have and should have gone over every day, multiple times a day, to care for them. Weird she didnt. But also weird the parents didn't feed them. Or the dogs

I know she's being nice and cooperating but I would feel so bad for the animals, dogs especially, and want to call animal control haha

And maybe the vet was covering for her?

 

[Kusanar]

I'm not trying to excuse the "trainer's" behavior, but the weight loss isn't too bad since they were moved (stress), and put into training which is a change in daily routine (stress), plus if they were being worked, they would be burning more calories than they would when you had them. I would expect to see that kind of weight drop if I sent a horse for training.

Now, not telling you about the getting dinged up and losing hair is certainly unprofessional, as is not going out there every day if she was being paid to train horses, you can't train a horse if you don't go where the horse is. Also, she obviously feels guilty about something otherwise she never would have agreed to give the other one back so fast and easy. A reputable trainer that doesn't feel that they did anything wrong isn't going to just let a person back out of paying them because their horse lost a little weight.

I've thought a few times about sending Papi for training, and the people have been very up front about the fact that the horse will probably lose a lot of hair (hobble training plus being ridden several hours a day on a horse that's not used to it WILL cause minor saddle sores) and will drop a lot of weight, they also advise shoeing all 4 before sending them due to the amount of work that the horse will be doing. You can guarantee that if you went to one of those trainers and complained about scratches on the horse and lost weight they would just shrug, not give you your money back.