Houdans

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Dr. Bramwell e-mailed me back to tell me his strain is originally from Cackle and he has been working with them for X-number of years to get them closer to standard. (I do hope to still obtain eggs from him once I get settled.) I have not yet had time to call Mr. Oxley in Ohio. I think there may be other breeders out there and I am certainly not ready to throw my hands up and give up on some really great old lines that actually in appearance and production resemble this literature I have been reading...but those birds would be a hidden gem indeed and may be extinct, at least in the US.

The honest truth is that as practical as the Houdan may once have been in its native land, it was probably relegated to a fancy breed because of it's crest and spots here and quickly lost favor sometime after it lost its utilitarian purposes. It would also geographically limit interest as I hear time and again that they can be difficult to keep in the winter with those crests, and old timers just aren't as likely to mess around with that stuff. SO, where hidden lines of other old breeds might be found and recovered from rural areas that kept them for utility flocks, the odds are slim indeed that that is the case with the Houdan.

I myself intend to probably cross back in some good Dorking blood to get the size and shape and utility functions back. The crest and spots will come with time, and probably easier!

 

[WooingWyandotte]

Cool!

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

i was thinking this as well... the biggest problem i see with the Houdan is the size... if one was to get say some of yellow house farms white Dorkings and cross in then breed back to Houdans... keep them 3/4 Houdan and 1/4 Dorking and select for type and size and color... i think in a few years you would have a nice bird... you could get pure white out of the mix as well... i think the hardest thing would pro be the comb...

i will pro play around with this next year... I'm just starting with Houdans this year... it would be nice to see if in a 5 year breeding program how much the pure's would improve compared to the crosses...

Dr. Bramwell e-mailed me back to tell me his strain is originally from Cackle and he has been working with them for X-number of years to get them closer to standard. (I do hope to still obtain eggs from him once I get settled.) I have not yet had time to call Mr. Oxley in Ohio. I think there may be other breeders out there and I am certainly not ready to throw my hands up and give up on some really great old lines that actually in appearance and production resemble this literature I have been reading...but those birds would be a hidden gem indeed and may be extinct, at least in the US.

The honest truth is that as practical as the Houdan may once have been in its native land, it was probably relegated to a fancy breed because of it's crest and spots here and quickly lost favor sometime after it lost its utilitarian purposes. It would also geographically limit interest as I hear time and again that they can be difficult to keep in the winter with those crests, and old timers just aren't as likely to mess around with that stuff. SO, where hidden lines of other old breeds might be found and recovered from rural areas that kept them for utility flocks, the odds are slim indeed that that is the case with the Houdan.

I myself intend to probably cross back in some good Dorking blood to get the size and shape and utility functions back. The crest and spots will come with time, and probably easier!

 

[Illia]

It's not just size, it's body shape too. If I were and maybe someday if I do end up with Houdans, yeah, I'm going the Dorking route. Dorkings have very similar body type to what Houdans should have. My preference would be in Cuckoo Dorkings to ease up the hassle of color leakage and all, but Duckwing types would be easy, too.

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

my ??? with any Dorking color is are they up to size and type to cross in to the Houdans... most of what i have seen on the Dorking thread is bemoaning the sad state of Dorkings today and that they need lots of work... So is there any cuckoo Dorkings that are in good enough shape to be worth the cross??? that is the only reason i suggested yellow houses Dorkings they seem to be coming right along...

I think it would be faster to just breed up a pure Houdan over a 5 year time than to cross with a Dorking that was not up to size and type...

What do y'all think... it would be nice to get a good round table discussion on this...

It's not just size, it's body shape too. If I were and maybe someday if I do end up with Houdans, yeah, I'm going the Dorking route. Dorkings have very similar body type to what Houdans should have. My preference would be in Cuckoo Dorkings to ease up the hassle of color leakage and all, but Duckwing types would be easy, too.

 

[Illia]

Cuckoo, not a clue. They're pretty darn rare. Even trying to find reference photos for good ones, foreign included, is hard.


I did see someone with what looked to be (don't know weight) some very very nice rosecomb Whites on the Heritage thread though. As for Colored, Silver, Red - Hardly a clue. I've seen the Dorking thread yes, and I'm sure they are indeed pretty poor in weight, and I have seen some poor type, but, naturally one should avoid that. I would imagine there are more good Dorkings than good Houdans out there. But I of course don't truly know. It's worth the hunt though.

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

ya the only whites i have seen over there where yellow house farms... that i know of there is only one lady in the US with cuckoo... im sure there are more but when ppl ask where to get a start they always send them to her...

i could not agree more...

I would imagine there are more good Dorkings than good Houdans out there. But I of course don't truly know. It's worth the hunt though.

Cuckoo, not a clue. They're pretty darn rare. Even trying to find reference photos for good ones, foreign included, is hard.


I did see someone with what looked to be (don't know weight) some very very nice rosecomb Whites on the Heritage thread though. As for Colored, Silver, Red - Hardly a clue. I've seen the Dorking thread yes, and I'm sure they are indeed pretty poor in weight, and I have seen some poor type, but, naturally one should avoid that. I would imagine there are more good Dorkings than good Houdans out there. But I of course don't truly know. It's worth the hunt though.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Yes, I would definitely use the white rose comb Dorkings from Yellow House Farms. It's the only flock of Dorkings I know of off the top of my head that is being utilized for production purposes in an actual working farm environment, and they seem to be doing well for them. Nice large birds, beautiful shape. I know a few with Silver Gray Dorkings that have had serious hardiness and reproductive issues. That is something I want to steer clear of!

I am intimidated by the prospect of regaining that beautiful three part leaf comb. I don't know how one would best go about it. Would single combs be better to mix in, or the rose combs? All things considered, the comb is low on my priority list, but it is something to think about. It would kind of be crappy to work for years and finally get a bird you really like and only want to continue dialing in, and all of a sudden have to bring in a total wild card to get the comb. Better to just knock it all out at once. Right? LOL

 

[DaveK]

Dr. Bramwell e-mailed me back to tell me his strain is originally from Cackle and he has been working with them for X-number of years to get them closer to standard. (I do hope to still obtain eggs from him once I get settled.) I have not yet had time to call Mr. Oxley in Ohio. I think there may be other breeders out there and I am certainly not ready to throw my hands up and give up on some really great old lines that actually in appearance and production resemble this literature I have been reading...but those birds would be a hidden gem indeed and may be extinct, at least in the US.

The honest truth is that as practical as the Houdan may once have been in its native land, it was probably relegated to a fancy breed because of it's crest and spots here and quickly lost favor sometime after it lost its utilitarian purposes. It would also geographically limit interest as I hear time and again that they can be difficult to keep in the winter with those crests, and old timers just aren't as likely to mess around with that stuff. SO, where hidden lines of other old breeds might be found and recovered from rural areas that kept them for utility flocks, the odds are slim indeed that that is the case with the Houdan.

I myself intend to probably cross back in some good Dorking blood to get the size and shape and utility functions back. The crest and spots will come with time, and probably easier!

This bit about being difficult to keep through the winter is an odd piece of information. If we go back a ways we had the Rev. Peterson in Maine. Then Bast in New York and Raddatz in Wisconsin. Gord Ridler and George Tilt, both in Ontario, had some very nice Houdans. Back on this side we have Barb Piper in northern Michigan, we had them in southern Michigan and Chris Kreuter in Pa.. Also Bob Rhodes in Massachusetts and Joe Marguette in New Hampshire where he said, for their facility, single combed breeds were a disaster. And back to Maine again with Jack Barnes. I'm tossing all of this out just in case someone who really wanted to try wasn't discouraged by location. If I were starting again there'd be a Dorking infused group as well as the pures, as long as progress was being made. Even imperfect Dorkings could impart some of that long, low and horizontal aspect as well as a deeper, fuller, rounder breast. Also a lot better idea of where and how the legs are placed compared to degenerative and/or Polish infused stock. Here's another thing about Dorkings. They will not ruin the texture, grain and overall quality of a Houdan carcass. If serious about breeding Houdans for what they used to and hopefully could be carcass quality is the reason why they were a great meal. I've never eaten a Polish but besides the horrendous effect on overall type and impression what is a Polish going to contribute to that carcass on the table? Silver gray Dorkings are actually not such a bad choice. The silver doesn't tend to be hiding other colors. Dig underneath a white and you may find a whole rainbow of colors including those from the various red families. All the Dorkings will give you pretty much the same set of positive and negative issues but red can be a bugger to work out of a color variety where it isn't wanted.

 

[WooingWyandotte]

I almost wonder...If in Français there is still a Houdan.