Houdans

[Bentley]

Quote:
That comb looks sort of similar to a buttercup comb, almost like that cross has been made a generation or two ago (the color leads me to believe this as well). But, you all are correct that the Original Houdan was to have a Leaf comb, but we rarely, if ever, see that in Houdans in the US. This is something I would like to eventually get to in my breeding program, but I am not there yet.

 

[yoie]

So happy to find this, I have one little houdan girl Emo and wanted to know a little more about her breed! At what age do they tend to start laying? And how is my girl looking, she is almost 4 months old now and getting more beautiful every day.

When I got her

And now

 

[exop]

Quote:
Mottled breeds do become whiter - "gayer" is the term that's been used to describe this - as they get older. The Houdan chapter in the Poultry Book (1904, on Google Books) goes so far as to recommend waiting to show or to breed from birds until they are 2 years old or more, when their adult feather color is more or less final... if you want to exhibit birds while they are still pullets, it says, then you will need to breed from adult birds with too much white on them. In short, birds which have perfect Standard mottling at 2 years old will look "too dark" when young... birds which have nice looking mottling when young will grow way too light as they get older.

Perhaps the light mottling in hatchery Houdans today is partly the result of people wanting birds that definitely look mottled in their first year of life, when it is the almost-black pullets + cockerels who will look like "proper" mottled Houdans later on!

There's also the breed history to take into account. When first popularized outside France, the colors were a splashy, even mix of black and white like an exchequer leghorn. It was only through sustained efforts by some rather obsessive British breeders that the color pattern was made darker and more in line with "mottling" seen in other breeds of chicken. Maybe at heart, the Houdan wants its old colors back. ...I mean, maybe it's going to be an uphill battle against natural genetic variation, to get and to keep the breed "extra dark".

Accessing Google Books can be a pain in the a** - if you have a slower connection or just don't like dealing with the interface. It is totally worth it though, to get to a long chapter all about the Mottled Houdan in America and loaded with advice and pictures. Here are just a few lifted from it, hopefully the images aren't too large:

Example of a dark colored pullet, photographed by the article's author, Rev. C.E. Petersen of Maine. Caption reads
A HOUDAN PULLET - too dark for exhibition, but which will molt into a standard colored hen

Example of a lighter colored pullet, one of the author's.
HOUDAN PULLET, "BONNIE LASS". First, Boston, 1900, and winner of many other prizes

Another of Mr. Petersen's photos, unsure if this is his bird as well - probably.
FIRST BOSTON HOUDAN COCK, 1902

Another prize winning cock, Mr. Petersen's, nice frontal photo showing massive build:
HOUDAN COCK, THE CHAMPION CHALLENGE CUP WINNER AT BOSTON, 1903 - Bred and owned by C.E. Peterson, Maine. Pronounced by expert judges to be the best Houdan male shown in America. A great grandson of the noted sire, "Danbury"

Illustration by Harrison Weir, author of the original English edition of the Poultry Book, "Our Poultry".
PRIZE HOUDAN COCKEREL, 1897 - The English type, and the butterfly comb, not bred in America

I like to look at these photos most of all as a guide for how the body should be shaped... because I think that by this time, crests on prize birds had gotten a little too full and started to get in the birds' way. Notice how you cannot see eyes in any of the above photo etchings... though that might be harder in the first place because everything is in black and white.

The Poultry Book also includes an illustration from the 1860s showing a cosmetically "unimproved" Houdan:
HOUDAN MALE AS IT LOOKED WHEN FIRST IMPORTED INTO THIS COUNTRY, IN THE SIXTIES - An unpardonable crest nowadays, but still seen. From an old woodcut, by permission

And we still see Houdans which look like this today! Right down to the big eyes and "who, me?" expression. Genuine Houdan, just not to standard.

ETA: added a couple more pictures & remarks...

 

[exop]

Quote:
That's a gorgeous photo of your Tolbunt, looks like something that might be painted on a Chinese vase. I like the carriage and shape of your Houdan boy butthead #2! Both of the Houdans look like they have some heft. How is their weight?

My group from Cackle included a couple who look like your sweetheart #1 in terms of crest shape.

It is HARD to really capture birds in photos, it seems like every shot makes the body shape look different, depending on the camera angle and what they are doing.

Here are a bunch of photos from way back on September 18, when they were 4 months, 2 weeks old: I need to take some more, that was a while ago.

Here's who I thought was my best boy at the time:

view of the comb. putting up with being manhandled...

outtahere!!! two of his hatchmates in the background.

Another pretty good guy, comb shot:

Most were fairly close to this type.

There were a few outliers,

This is a girl I ended up selling because I felt she was too light (small) and a little too polish:

This photo makes her look quite good; but she's actually skinnier than she appears here, with a longer, narrower tail.

Guy with a bit of an antler:

Guy I gave away, with a hint of what could be a leaf comb if bigger and toothier:

Best - exop

 

[gootziecat]

When I read of the utility qualities of the Houdan and their lovely temperament, it makes me sad they have nearly slipped into an extinct state. I really would like to see these, along with a few other rare breeds, be brought back. I applaud everyone that is making the effort to revive them.

 

[Chilifur]

Quote:
I LOVE these! And I just download the books - it *is* exactly a pain... I already have "The Poultry Book" by Weir - but it's not the same one! Thanks for the link.

Personally, I want those leaf combs. AND size. My remaining boy, Morelle, (the sweetheart) was kept for his personality and size. He's a nicely built rooster and is not the butthead that the others (and Polish boys) are.

Will post when the eggs I have start hatching! Would love to see the shots of your little ones (hint hint)...

 

[exop]

Not chick pics, but more eye candy from across the web. Here are some pictures of the leaf comb from a crested club in Denmark :
(* the specialklubben for de toppede høns)

Some nice shaped hens,

 

[exop]

PS. One thing I think is cool is that these chickens can see - there are visible eyes in most of the pictures. If (big if) this toppedehoens pic of a young bird is at all representative, it may be a clue,

Here the crest is growing in very long and full, but you can see that the actual area of growth is confined to a fairly compact band on the front top of the head.

hmmm

(I would love to see pictures of some of the newly hatched Danish chicks as well, to check out the shape of the vault)

 

[poularde]

I have a bad pic of a newly hatched chick. I hope you can tell with the terrible picture quality.

The bird ended up with a horn comb. The crest on him stayed well out of his eyes.

 

[WyandotteTX]

Love the pics of the old Houdans, thanks for sharing.
Just my own personal taste, I am not a fan of the leaf comb at all. When I think of a Houdan I think of a VERY pronounced V Comb that almost resembles horns in shape. I have loved this breed for a very long time. Had some great ones 30 years ago.
I have heard of the project that the University of Arkansas is doing with Mottled Houdans. From what I have heard they are hatching out hundreds of birds in an attempt to improve the variety. Kinda cool I think. Hope they succeed. I do believe you can get hatching eggs from them but you have to go pick them up in Fayeteville.