The pic doesn't show.
Not that I'm eager to see or anything...
How bad are the de-beaked hens?
- Thread starter boykin2010
- Start date
Quote:
That's not too bad, the industry generally refers to that as beak "tipping" or "trimming" vs debeaking. As others have noted, there are practices that are much worse than this. You'd only have to search Google images to find photos of birds that have really been "debeaked" or had a large portion of the beak removed.
While I personally don't have a problem with beak "tipping", I know consumers are sensitive to the topic. I've thought about trying to get away from the practice, but I'm not sure it is feasible for me to do so. For one, it is a huge risk for me to try otherwise. I buy ready-to-lay pullets and a flock of 2500 birds costs me $17,000. Even if I raised them myself I would have a substantial investment in pullets. Birds cannot be readily replaced if I lose them. If there were problems with cannibalism (I'm not so sure there would be), besides losing production from increased mortality rates, it would be a problem that I'd have to contend with throughout the life of that flock. Additionally, this is standard practice at the grower barns where they grow pullets for multiple layer barns in our area. Our birds are grown with birds for others, so it not feasible to ask for non-trimmed birds.
Lastly, I'd prefer to explain why our birds have their beaks trimmed than to possibly have to show customers birds that have developed a pecking problem, I think the latter would be more disturbing.
That's not too bad, the industry generally refers to that as beak "tipping" or "trimming" vs debeaking. As others have noted, there are practices that are much worse than this. You'd only have to search Google images to find photos of birds that have really been "debeaked" or had a large portion of the beak removed.
While I personally don't have a problem with beak "tipping", I know consumers are sensitive to the topic. I've thought about trying to get away from the practice, but I'm not sure it is feasible for me to do so. For one, it is a huge risk for me to try otherwise. I buy ready-to-lay pullets and a flock of 2500 birds costs me $17,000. Even if I raised them myself I would have a substantial investment in pullets. Birds cannot be readily replaced if I lose them. If there were problems with cannibalism (I'm not so sure there would be), besides losing production from increased mortality rates, it would be a problem that I'd have to contend with throughout the life of that flock. Additionally, this is standard practice at the grower barns where they grow pullets for multiple layer barns in our area. Our birds are grown with birds for others, so it not feasible to ask for non-trimmed birds.
Lastly, I'd prefer to explain why our birds have their beaks trimmed than to possibly have to show customers birds that have developed a pecking problem, I think the latter would be more disturbing.
Mac,
I have seen your posts and pics of you setup, you are definately an exception to the rule. Perhaps some of the larger operations should hire you to show them how run a profitable business while maintaing a humane enviornment for chickens. Consumers don't need to see hens sitting in front of a mirror primping or ordering take out (we've all seen those commercials
), they need to see clean conditions and pastures where birds can live a relatively natural life.
BTW I can understand beak trimming, it is the extreme practice of debeaking that I have a problem with. I have fought pecking and cannibalism in my small flock so I imagine it would be a major issue in larger groups of birds.
I have seen your posts and pics of you setup, you are definately an exception to the rule. Perhaps some of the larger operations should hire you to show them how run a profitable business while maintaing a humane enviornment for chickens. Consumers don't need to see hens sitting in front of a mirror primping or ordering take out (we've all seen those commercials
BTW I can understand beak trimming, it is the extreme practice of debeaking that I have a problem with. I have fought pecking and cannibalism in my small flock so I imagine it would be a major issue in larger groups of birds.
We bought our hens from a small farmer and one of them had her beak "tipped". The farmer received her from wherever she originated this way. She has no trouble holding her own in the flock and was the leader for quite a while. Is 2nd in the pecking order now only because she got sick for a while and another hen took advantage. Her top beak is just slightly shorter than her bottom one by maybe 1/32 of an inch (almost not noticable), very similar to the pic posted here. I do notice that she has to peck at something several times in order to grab it, I think it's because her bottom beak pushes the item out of the way of her top beak grabbing it. So, she gets plenty of feed but does have to work a little bit harder for it.
We do not debeak our hens and never plan to. However, we ended up with this one and she's our favorite... the most friendly and outgoing. I'm glad we kept her. None of our other hens or chicks have altered beaks.
We do not debeak our hens and never plan to. However, we ended up with this one and she's our favorite... the most friendly and outgoing. I'm glad we kept her. None of our other hens or chicks have altered beaks.
Quote:
Well, I'm not the only one, there are a number of small producers out there doing much of the same. The organic farmers' cooperative that I produce eggs for has about 75 egg producers doing much of the same. In total we have about 450,000 hens kept under the same animal welfare standards.
The larger operations don't want to hear what I've got to say. I'm just a thorn in their side. I've talked animal welfare standards with owners or representatives from some fairly large operations (1 million - 5 million birds). You have to realize that many of these regional, family owned operations have been in the egg business for generations. Everything they know about layer hens and hen welfare is inextricably linked to the industry practices of the past 50 years. The owners, the poultry scientists, the nutritionists, the equipment vendors, the entire industry, have been doing things the same way for decades and collectively they have billions invested in existing infrastructure. They don't know how to do things differently. I've heard poultry scientists who have been in the industry for decades argue that is dangerous (for various reasons) to let hens outside. It seems to go against everything they have been taught, and have been teaching, for decades. Also, with billions invested in infrastructure, many cannot do it any other way. The large, conventional egg farms have been built up over decades, the facilities were designed for one thing, large-scale egg production. Although there have been some concessions to animal welfare such as lower cage stocking densities, "enhanced" cages and such, for the most part there is no escaping what is already in place. They are not going to raze the existing facilities and start over. It is what it is. I wouldn't blame the farmers, they didn't necessarily create the industry as it is now, it has evolved into what it is now for various reasons; unregulated competition, mass retailing, consumer apathy. Unless every consumer votes with their wallet to choose eggs from alternative production systems (fat chance), the conventional egg industry is going to continue with business as usual.
Well, I'm not the only one, there are a number of small producers out there doing much of the same. The organic farmers' cooperative that I produce eggs for has about 75 egg producers doing much of the same. In total we have about 450,000 hens kept under the same animal welfare standards.
The larger operations don't want to hear what I've got to say. I'm just a thorn in their side. I've talked animal welfare standards with owners or representatives from some fairly large operations (1 million - 5 million birds). You have to realize that many of these regional, family owned operations have been in the egg business for generations. Everything they know about layer hens and hen welfare is inextricably linked to the industry practices of the past 50 years. The owners, the poultry scientists, the nutritionists, the equipment vendors, the entire industry, have been doing things the same way for decades and collectively they have billions invested in existing infrastructure. They don't know how to do things differently. I've heard poultry scientists who have been in the industry for decades argue that is dangerous (for various reasons) to let hens outside. It seems to go against everything they have been taught, and have been teaching, for decades. Also, with billions invested in infrastructure, many cannot do it any other way. The large, conventional egg farms have been built up over decades, the facilities were designed for one thing, large-scale egg production. Although there have been some concessions to animal welfare such as lower cage stocking densities, "enhanced" cages and such, for the most part there is no escaping what is already in place. They are not going to raze the existing facilities and start over. It is what it is. I wouldn't blame the farmers, they didn't necessarily create the industry as it is now, it has evolved into what it is now for various reasons; unregulated competition, mass retailing, consumer apathy. Unless every consumer votes with their wallet to choose eggs from alternative production systems (fat chance), the conventional egg industry is going to continue with business as usual.
Quote:
Well, I'm not the only one, there are a number of small producers out there doing much of the same. The organic farmers' cooperative that I produce eggs for has about 75 egg producers doing much of the same. In total we have about 450,000 hens kept under the same animal welfare standards.
The larger operations don't want to hear what I've got to say. I'm just a thorn in their side. I've talked animal welfare standards with owners or representatives from some fairly large operations (1 million - 5 million birds). You have to realize that many of these regional, family owned operations have been in the egg business for generations. Everything they know about layer hens and hen welfare is inextricably linked to the industry practices of the past 50 years. The owners, the poultry scientists, the nutritionists, the equipment vendors, the entire industry, have been doing things the same way for decades and collectively they have billions invested in existing infrastructure. They don't know how to do things differently. I've heard poultry scientists who have been in the industry for decades argue that is dangerous (for various reasons) to let hens outside. It seems to go against everything they have been taught, and have been teaching, for decades. Also, with billions invested in infrastructure, many cannot do it any other way. The large, conventional egg farms have been built up over decades, the facilities were designed for one thing, large-scale egg production. Although there have been some concessions to animal welfare such as lower cage stocking densities, "enhanced" cages and such, for the most part there is no escaping what is already in place. They are not going to raze the existing facilities and start over. It is what it is. I wouldn't blame the farmers, they didn't necessarily create the industry as it is now, it has evolved into what it is now for various reasons; unregulated competition, mass retailing, consumer apathy. Unless every consumer votes with their wallet to choose eggs from alternative production systems (fat chance), the conventional egg industry is going to continue with business as usual.
That just saddens me.
I live by the "respect the animal that provides for you" philosophy. Give them a life with as little stress as possible and let them function as naturally as you can in exchange for the eggs or meat you will harvest from them. It just seems like the right thing to do.
Well, I'm not the only one, there are a number of small producers out there doing much of the same. The organic farmers' cooperative that I produce eggs for has about 75 egg producers doing much of the same. In total we have about 450,000 hens kept under the same animal welfare standards.
The larger operations don't want to hear what I've got to say. I'm just a thorn in their side. I've talked animal welfare standards with owners or representatives from some fairly large operations (1 million - 5 million birds). You have to realize that many of these regional, family owned operations have been in the egg business for generations. Everything they know about layer hens and hen welfare is inextricably linked to the industry practices of the past 50 years. The owners, the poultry scientists, the nutritionists, the equipment vendors, the entire industry, have been doing things the same way for decades and collectively they have billions invested in existing infrastructure. They don't know how to do things differently. I've heard poultry scientists who have been in the industry for decades argue that is dangerous (for various reasons) to let hens outside. It seems to go against everything they have been taught, and have been teaching, for decades. Also, with billions invested in infrastructure, many cannot do it any other way. The large, conventional egg farms have been built up over decades, the facilities were designed for one thing, large-scale egg production. Although there have been some concessions to animal welfare such as lower cage stocking densities, "enhanced" cages and such, for the most part there is no escaping what is already in place. They are not going to raze the existing facilities and start over. It is what it is. I wouldn't blame the farmers, they didn't necessarily create the industry as it is now, it has evolved into what it is now for various reasons; unregulated competition, mass retailing, consumer apathy. Unless every consumer votes with their wallet to choose eggs from alternative production systems (fat chance), the conventional egg industry is going to continue with business as usual.
That just saddens me.
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