How do bantam breeds become standard or vice versa?

[Cat Water]

Like how lavander ameraucanas started out bantam and now there are standard sizes? And like how Russian Orloffs started standard and now there is bantam and standard sizes. What is the process that turns a particular breed or color of a breed bantam to standard or vice versa? Thanks!

 

[racuda]

Good question. Is it a matter of selecting for smaller (or larger) birds, or are other breeds brought in to get the size up or down?

 

[RAREROO]

Maybe Robert Blosl will chime in and explain how and how long it took for him to shrink his Mohawk line of RIRs down to bantam size.

 

[Cat Water]

Quote:
Are you asking me? Or whoever else is reading?

Bump for Robert Blosl.

 

[keith_m71]

This is a good post, I've often wondered this myself...

 

[racuda]

Quote:
Are you asking me? Or whoever else is reading?

Bump for Robert Blosl.

Actually it was my way of bumping you.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I took a Rhode Island Red Bantam and mated it to a small late hatched Rhode Island Red large fowl cockerel. Then I got three chicks two females and one male. I mated the male to each female and started two lines of half bantams and half large fowl. Each year I hatched late in the year to keep the size down. This is between march and april 20th each year and I still do it today to keep the bantam size down. I did this in breeding line breeding thing for about six years. I then gave a friend two of my big males and he crossed them onto his bantam line which was the strain of bantams I started with and he then returned back to me the two best type males which where half his bantams and half my shrunk down bantams. They where still large but each year for about five years they got smaller. I got some great bantam males about five years ago but my females did not have the type I wanted so I inbreed the best daughters to the male that is below my name and in three years the females where equal to my males for type. They looked like miniture large fowl.

There is no short cut in time. Many have tried it with brown leghrons and the bantams are still to large.

I had a friend who crossed a Rose Comb Rhode Island Red bantam onto a single comb large fowl Rhode Island Red to develpe the rose comb large fowl breed It took about five to seven years to get a rose comb on a single comb large fowl. I think its is easyer to go from bantam to large fowl. You have to hatch these birds out in Dec and Jan to keep the size from being small.

I never breed for color only size in the twenty two years of doing this. My color on my bantams are about as good as my old large fowl. They are dark and even.

I hope this helps you. Bob Blosl R I Red Breeder

Here is this years hatch on the 22nd year of this project.

 

[RAREROO]

Quote:
Thanks for the explaition Bob, I've known that you shrunk them down, but had also been wondering how you did it and how long it took too. But this is the first I've heard about the time of year effecting the size. Can you please enlighten us on the logic behind this and how it works ?

 

[Robert Blosl]

In regards to rasing large fowl hatch as early as possable to keep size up. Jan feb march. In bantams hatch the first chick on March lst and stop about april 20th. That will keep the size down. Bantam breeders up north hatch chicks out like large fowl and most of the bantams are to large. Down here in the south I have found this to be true. This is a method I have done and now all the bantams are done this way. If the eggs do come out early I will sell the eggs to people or hatch the chicks and send them as started birds. But with my heat down here its a waist of time to raise them for show birds. As breeders they are fine.

I hatched some large fowl white rocks a few years ago in June they where one pound smaller than the same baby chicks hatched in Jan and Feb. Why I think the heat slows down the groth or they dont eat as much. The chicks from these smaller birds however, if hatched in Jan and Feb the next year will be normal size.

In bantams Chicks hatched in Jan and Feb will grow larger. Some times I was trying to get a female so bad for my calll ducks or red bantams I would hatch the eggs to try to get one. Every time I raised the little ones up they where so much bigger. I also found if I hatch my birds in may and june they dont feather as well again I live near the Gulf of Mexico near Mobile Alabama its hot and so humid. This may not be a factor in other parts of the county. I Washington State I always hatched my large fowl in Jan and Feb so they would be ready for the fall fairs.

What I am doing this year is I have three small wooden incuabotors. I hatch each breeding pen in say number one, number two and number three I place these chicks in a brooder box and raise them up to say two weeks of age and put a wing band number on each chick so I know what family they are out of. I do however, toe punch each chick to thier pen mating as soon as they go into the brooder box.

I have white leghorn, white plymouth rock, rhode island reds, and buff brahmas and gray call ducks and over the years I have been able to weigh my birds as adults and keep them under the standard weight. This works with two other bantam breeders who are friends of mine who live in North Lousiania and Arkansas. They do it the same way.

There bantams are not large and they have super birds for color and type.

Thats how I do it and it works for me.
You need to buy you a cheap digital scale and weigh your birds so you know if you are in the ball park. In American Breed Large fowl it is better to have your birds at age ten months to be about one pound over standard weight. You get a nice 24 ounce per dozen set of eggs and your chicks will be right on the money.

Hope this helps you. bob

 

[punky rooster]

so I should not hatch my bantams until march then? and my LF in january thru march?
that works for me!
thanks bob