How do you feed your guineas when they are part of a mixed flock?

[makingshift]

We just received two ducklings, 4 guinea keets, and 10 baby chicks in the mail today. I gave them all a 20% protein starter feed today but I know the guineas should probably be getting more like 24%. I had hoped to keep all the babies together but I'm wondering if I should separate them so I can give them different feed. How do you all handle this matter?

Thanks! We are new to guineas and ducks and this is really exciting for us!

 

[PeepsCA]

Thanks to PeepsCA, I learned quite a bit about my little keets that I've had in a mixed brooder... Right now, I'm feeding a fermented starter feed - fermentation increases the amount of available protein. In addition, I add kefir and meal worms. It's probably more protein than my chicks need; but, it's not quite as much as the keets would generally get. I'd say (I'm guesstimating) that I'm running roughly 25-26% protein. It could be more; but, I'd only be guessing.

There are 4 week old keets, 2 week old chicks, and five day old keets in the brooder together. PeepsCA, don't pass out...remember, I've a decent sized brooder. Plenty of temperature variation if they need to move around. **grins**

It's a 3:1:1:.5 ratio that I use on my feed for them. Three parts fermented starter feed (a mash that is 20% protein dry - increases to about 23% when fermented). One part dry feed (so that I can put it on that lid and not have it pour out everywhere). One part kefir and half part meal worms. There's been no cannibalism attempted and the bigger ones actually play care takers to the smaller ones, so I'm guessing the protein ratios are working out ok.

That's 20 chicks and 10 keets in a 10'x2.5' brooder, if you were wondering

LOL I'm not passing out, just cringing at the thought of how often those youngest keets may get stepped on

I'm glad a brooder full if mixed babies and ages works so well for you tho.

Besides the 25-26% protein your babies are getting from the fermented feed and extras you add in they are also getting a lot more vitamins, minerals, beneficial bacteria, enzymes etc than they would not get from just getting a dry Game Bird or Turkey starter feed that's traditionally used to raise keets. Plus feeding fermented feeds (or wet/soaked feeds) increases their digestive system's ability to utilize and absorb all that good stuff... so in your case the little lower protein % probably won't be a problem due to the overall increased nutrition.

 

[PeepsCA]

There's a lot of argument about what the correct feed for mixed broods is. Some say to go ahead and feed them all a high protein starter and that the chicks can pass the extra protein without issues, others argue too much protein is harmful to the chicks. Scrambled or crumbled boiled eggs plus meal worms can help give the keets more protein but if you want healthy/hearty keets (and productive adult Guineas) then the keets really should be fed high protein (27-28%) until they are 6-8wks old. When raised on chick starter they are prone to developing fat deposits, especially in and around the organs which leads to health and reproduction problems later on, as well as a shortened lifespan. One other major concern if they are not getting enough protein during the brooder stage would be that they may start cannibalizing your other babies. And you do not want that.

They can eat the 20% protein after 6-8wks of age up until they are 12 wks old, then they can be switched to a layer feed or all purpose poultry food with at least 16% protein in it.

 

[hehahn]

It's not the keets that have an issue with 30% protein, hon. She has a mixed brooder, like I do. The 30% is about 10% higher than chicks need. So, you can sometimes split the difference and have it ok - depending on how you go about doing it. That's all we're talking about.

30% should be fine in a non-mixed brooder. Peeps is the one in the know if anyone is - I'm sure she'll say for certain.

The ones in that video are French Guineas, also. They grow fast. I couldn't believe how fast they feathered out. In no time at all (much quicker than my chicks) I had to put a lid on the brooder to keep them in. We were slow about the lid on the new brooder....fun times chasing keets around the room trying to catch them!!

Edit: Makingshift, I just now noticed you are right down the road from me. How funny is that. You should come join us on the Texas thread.

I also have a mixed brooder with 2 week old chicks and three guineas. This is our first guinea hatch, and I didn't know to up their protein until yesterday. We moved them to 24% protein because that was the most we could find at Tractor Supply, and the other area feed stores are sold out of game bird and anything higher than 24%. Is that okay for the chicks, too? I'm assuming it is. We've had them on 18%, and one of the guineas was shaking, but that could have been from the cold. He doesn't do it all the time. (We just moved the brooder with heat lamps to the shed from the kitchen because my dear, dear husband had had enough of them! He's pretty patient, but no sense pushing my luck.)

And my burning question is: how do you do fermentation of their feed? Just get it wet and let it "percolate" or what?

The chicken-duck-guinea-geese extravaganza is my oldest daughter's empire, so I have stayed out of the particulars of brooding/hatching/feeding, but I'd like to make sure they're getting what they need. My daughter is pretty knowledgeable, but like I said, this is our first go-round with guineas.

Makingshift, you and Kilsharion aren't that far from me -- I'm just on the east side of Houston. Right now we have some Black and Blue Copper Marans, some Welsummers, some assorted barnyard mixes from a friend for our brown egg laying flock, and some ducks and geese. Right now I have 30 "big" birds, 20 chicks, and -scary- but another 60 in the incubator due to come out in about two more weeks. That will have guineas, ducks, geese and chicks.

They're so addictive! No one told me! And even worse, my daughter and I are bad for each other. My husband is the only voice of reason! And there's a man at church with geese, ducks, and chickens who's always slipping us some fertile eggs of one kind or another. It's like he's the drug-dealer of the poultry world!

I would LOVE to get some Dorkings, and to see some Crele Dorkings. That may have to wait until we get a bigger place, though.

Will you post pics of your chicks and guineas, pretty please!

 

[Kilsharion]

Hey there! Glad to see you

There are a few ways to ferment feed and I can't say that any one way is the right way to do it. All variations have their benefits. The one bonus to all forms of fermentation is that you can pretty much guarantee a 3% increase in crude protein levels.

Yes, you can just put the feed in water and let it sit, uncovered and outside. With our weather, this time of year is very conducive to doing just that. You'll get a wild yeast colony eventually interested. Quicker interest if your feed has molasses in the mix.

An easier way to start fermenting your feed is by using some sort of starter. The starters are as varied as the forms of fermentation through the history of mankind - literally. Some swear only lactic acid bacteria (LAB) is the way to go. Some swear indigenous micro-organisms (IMO) is the way. Others say use yogurt. Others say use sour dough mother. Some say just apple cider vinegar with mother. Some say baker's yeast and sugar.....see where this is going? Regardless of how you start it, you wind up with a beneficial product. The feed is broken down in such a way that it assists in the digestion, which in turn increases nutritional intake and reduces the smell of their poo (no, I'm not kidding).

Many (most) suggest adding Apple Cider Vinegar (you'll see it abbreviated ACV) with mother to inject great probiotics and help with ensuring no alcohol begins to form - the grains in FF are great for making hooch if you let it sit unmolested for several days. The vinegar prevents that as vinegar converts alcohol to...vinegar. Lots of big words if you want the details; but, that's about all you need to know, there.

If you use something to kick start your FF instead of just letting it soak and sit (a perfectly viable option, btw - you will know when it's started to ferment by the bubbles, etc), you should see fermentation activity within 24 hours. Especially at our temps. I let mine sit outside, uncovered. I get all sorts of bugs and insects added into the mix - I just leave 'em in there. Hey, I can use all the protein I can get!! I stir it a couple times in the morning and in the evening - whenever I walk by it. You need to stir it to introduce fresh oxygen and encourage the fermentation (assuming you choose not to do a sealed fermentation - a whole other post). Depending on the feed you're using, you'll get different smell results....I've found in my experimentation that Purina crumbles smell like bread dough - where H&H feed (has fishmeal in it) smells rancid and nasty. It's the fermenting fish meal that does it. Thus why my FF is kept outdoors and well away from sensitive noses. It's a good idea to have about an inch of liquid above the feed after it all settles down; but, it's not necessary. Many do what I call a "dry ferment". I prefer doing it with the liquid barrier. Just my druthers.

There's a whole thread on FF here called Fermented Feed for Meat Birds. I don't know if you want to wade through it. It may cause more questions than it answers; but, it is a great resource. Or - you can just keep asking me and I'll give you the information I have available. No problems, there.

In my mix, I have my fermented feed (which is actually a mix of the options above, btw) to which I add kefir (fermented milk - takes the crude protein of the milk from ~3% to ~12.5%) and mealworms (49% crude protein). I mix in dry feed until the consistency is about like what you'd use to build a sand castle (assuming you've ever done that). Just this week, I started mixing dry gamebird feed instead of dry chick starter since it's 24% (also the only protein level I could find for gamebird feed, so don't feel bad). The mix, all told, comes out to roughly 26-27% protein. Not ideal for either; but, workable. The slightly elevated protein levels are not as bad for the chicks as having the guineas on not nearly enough protein.

As for photos...I don't have many of those; but, I do have this video of them on their first night in The Eggcelsior (our first stationary coop).

I'm totally an enabler, so be warned. And, my husband can't tell me no...as a matter of fact, he's having a blast building my town of coops (in my signature box titled Landstown).

If you still want some Creles in about a year, give me a shout. I'll see what I can do for you from my batch....afterall, I'm over that way pretty regular since I have kids (and a soon to be grandbaby) in Houston.

[VIDEO]

Edit: oh, yeah...the way you keep your fermented feed going is the same as you would a sourdough starter. You take out the feed that you want to use for that day - well strained. Return the liquid to the bucket along with any unused feed, add fresh feed and some fresh water to the mix in the fermentation bucket. Stir it around and let it keep right on going. No muss no fuss.

 

[BunkyB]

I would treat the guineas the same as the rest of the flock when it comes to feed. I find my guineas prefer the bugs and insects more than the hens. They are excellent forragers for their feed. My guineas never have a problem withthe regular feed. I do mix my feed as well, my own blend.
I do the grower pellets, lay ration mash and cracked corn and my sweet oats as a filler. What they don't want they don't eat. They can be fussy eaters but they are always at the dishes first thing in the morning. As the snow clears more they will scratch around for their own feed anyways. Less time at the feeding stations and more time on the acreage... Have fun.... Steve

 

[makingshift]

Thank you guys! PeepsCA, 93 guineas is an impressive flock! I think I'm going to separate the birds and feed them differently.

 

[Kilsharion]

Thanks to PeepsCA, I learned quite a bit about my little keets that I've had in a mixed brooder... Right now, I'm feeding a fermented starter feed - fermentation increases the amount of available protein. In addition, I add kefir and meal worms. It's probably more protein than my chicks need; but, it's not quite as much as the keets would generally get. I'd say (I'm guesstimating) that I'm running roughly 25-26% protein. It could be more; but, I'd only be guessing.

There are 4 week old keets, 2 week old chicks, and five day old keets in the brooder together. PeepsCA, don't pass out...remember, I've a decent sized brooder. Plenty of temperature variation if they need to move around. **grins**

Here's a video of them all, if you want a moment of cheep happiness.


It's a 3:1:1:.5 ratio that I use on my feed for them. Three parts fermented starter feed (a mash that is 20% protein dry - increases to about 23% when fermented). One part dry feed (so that I can put it on that lid and not have it pour out everywhere). One part kefir and half part meal worms. There's been no cannibalism attempted and the bigger ones actually play care takers to the smaller ones, so I'm guessing the protein ratios are working out ok.

That's 20 chicks and 10 keets in a 10'x2.5' brooder, if you were wondering

 

[Kilsharion]

LOL I'm not passing out, just cringing at the thought of how often those youngest keets may get stepped on

I'm glad a brooder full if mixed babies and ages works so well for you tho.

Besides the 25-26% protein your babies are getting from the fermented feed and extras you add in they are also getting a lot more vitamins, minerals, beneficial bacteria, enzymes etc than they would not get from just getting a dry Game Bird or Turkey starter feed that's traditionally used to raise keets. Plus feeding fermented feeds (or wet/soaked feeds) increases their digestive system's ability to utilize and absorb all that good stuff... so in your case the little lower protein % probably won't be a problem due to the overall increased nutrition.

I was terribly worried about the stomping - but, one of the larger keets has actually taken to playing mama to all the chicks and the baby keets. Not a very good mama, since she pushes 'em right out of the way to get where she wants to go...but, she's pretty careful with them. Even tolerates them trying to hide under her wings. The first few days, I was in a panic. Sat there and was glued to the brooder making sure they could get to the food, get to the water, weren't getting smothered, weren't getting stomped on (too much), etc. After day two, I breathed easier and let it go. I still have panic moments, though, when I wake up in the middle of the night and go check

My husband made me a divider so that if I wind up with problems, I can separate them. But, I'm wanting to try to keep them all together during brooder time so they identify without me having to do slow integration after the fact. Considering how the older keets seem to be watching out for the chicks and the little keets, I think it's working ok. Certainly not my idea of an ideal situation, though! I wish they were all the same age like MakingShift's are.

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the mix they are getting. I've been trying to be certain of the protein content since you mentioned potential cannibalism a while back. You have wonderful information to share....thank you so much for doing so.

 

[makingshift]

Kilsharion, you're worse than I am if you're checking on your keets in the middle of the night! My husband teases me for checking on them all through the day. I really like the idea of the soaked/fermented grains. I've been using soaked grains for our human food so it makes sense that soaking poultry feed would be similarly beneficial. I had never heard of that for poultry before- I'll have to do some more reading.

I bought a 50lb bag of wild game starter at the feed store today. It is 30% protein so I plan to mix it with the 20% chick starter I already have to make a 25-27% protein mix for the guineas.

So we're only on day 2 with the keets and they are so adorable and SO active. They are smaller than the chicks and ducklings, of course, but more active and "wild". They are French guineas so I would imagine they are slightly bigger than the normal keets. They remind me quite a bit of some Japanese banty chicks we had last spring.