How do you ferment chicken feed? Is it worth it?

[Perris]

One thing that just came to mind: even if the chickens aren't really getting many benefits, would it still fill them up faster, therefore cutting the feed bill down?

If you have water for lunch, would that fill you up?
You are just adding water to processed feed.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Only true ways to cut feed costs is to reduce flock size, and/or provide ample, varied forage or access to quality waste scraps and have them free range all day, every day.

The main cost savings with FF is reducing waste. I get next to no wasted feed with fermented feed vs dry feed, where chickens don't eat fines or other powdery leftover bits (I ferment a whole grain mash plus offer dry pellets as well). I don't have an issue with birds NOT eating their FF - but obviously if I put out too much or they weren't eating it, then I would have a waste issue. And no, the addition of water to feed doesn't reduce what they eat (but it can swell up the appearance of the feed).

It really isn't any extra work IMO. Filling up a jar with water and feed takes what, 30 seconds? Filling up the gravity feeder with dry feed takes me about the same time. But no, you can't just leave it out for weeks to feed the birds, it is a daily or twice daily thing.

Mold may or may not be an issue depending on temperature and climate. I haven't had a moldy batch in 2 years but yes I've had to toss out moldy batches before.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

Only true ways to cut feed costs is to reduce flock size, and/or provide ample, varied forage or access to quality waste scraps and have them free range all day, every day.

The main cost savings with FF is reducing waste. I get next to no wasted feed with fermented feed vs dry feed, where chickens don't eat fines or other powdery leftover bits (I ferment a whole grain mash plus offer dry pellets as well). I don't have an issue with birds NOT eating their FF - but obviously if I put out too much or they weren't eating it, then I would have a waste issue. And no, the addition of water to feed doesn't reduce what they eat (but it can swell up the appearance of the feed).

It really isn't any extra work IMO. Filling up a jar with water and feed takes what, 30 seconds? Filling up the gravity feeder with dry feed takes me about the same time. But no, you can't just leave it out for weeks to feed the birds, it is a daily or twice daily thing.

Mold may or may not be an issue depending on temperature and climate. I haven't had a moldy batch in 2 years but yes I've had to toss out moldy batches before.

^^^ great summary here!

I’ve moved to one large serving of fermented whole grain feed in the morning, with the same feed in dried form available through the day in a hanging feeder. I was going crazy trying to guess how much to ferment for 100% fermented meals each day, as the amounts they ate jumped around so. Once I get through the excess feed I have on hand, I’ll probably switch to all-flock pellets for the dry feed. Add obligatory oyster shell on hand, etc.

They do ignore the mini-bits of vitamins etc in the dry form, but I just add that to the next day’s ferment.

And again, nearly ZERO waste with fermentation.

 

[Debbie292d]

One thing that just came to mind: even if the chickens aren't really getting many benefits, would it still fill them up faster, therefore cutting the feed bill down?

You have eight chickens. A 50# bag of feed is around $30, and say it lasts you a month. So now you ferment some of that. You'd maybe get a couple more days out of that bag. I think the biggest benefit to fermenting their layer feed is the increase of prebiotics/probiotics.

How I started was with a bag of Kalmbach's Henhouse Reserve (HHR). I put that in the chicken feeders and saw how they wasted so much. I replaced it with their crumbles and fermented the HHR. That is a layer feed containing whole grains. I then got the whole wheat and whole oats to mix in, plus add a small amt of Chia seeds and flax seeds to up the nutrition of it. Now this does cut down on how much feed they eat, but it's probably a wash with what I spend on the rest.

Also, we use the HHR for scratch, so we never buy scratch. That's cheaper and way healthier.

 

[SourRoses]

One thing that just came to mind: even if the chickens aren't really getting many benefits, would it still fill them up faster, therefore cutting the feed bill down?

Chickens eat to fulfill their calorie needs. If their food is watered down they will eat more until they've hit the goal.
Think of it like eating a stew vs. a thin soup. Now imagine you aren't an infrequent large meal eating human but a browser eating smaller amounts more often. You would be back at that bowl constantly.

And, if someone limited your daily intake, even on accident because the sloppy food is harder to distribute and keep available all day...
you would eventually start to suffer malnutrition. Maybe your hair falls out, maybe it just looks less shiny. But your energy and happiness drops. If you're female, your cycle becomes less predictable. Over time you start to lose muscle mass. Eventually, your organs are less healthy and your lifespan shortened.
These effects are hard to see because it doesn't happen suddenly. Bodies try to survive regardless of being shorted.

So here's the real way to save money on chicken feed...
Cull your flock for anyone not productive. Get rid of hens older than 3 years old unless they are still working. Roosters, bye. Unproductive breeds, no.

Make sure your feeders limit spilling, and protect the food from spoiling (such as from rain, mold, etc.)
If other critters are eating your feed, fence them out, pick it up at night, etc.

Most importantly, provide consistent, constant access to feed for all of their waking hours. Chickens stressed about hunger eat more. When food is always there, they relax and eat only what they need.

Save your money by not buying any treats or scratch, which have little nutrition. Put it all into a decent feed with good protein (20% is best, 18% is kinda okay, 16% is lacking).

* Anyone who tries to convince you adding water and aging a complete feed, is somehow creating more nutrients, is proffering snake oil.
Complete feeds are already designed with all the nutrients bioavailable. That is not always the case with whole grains, but those grains are more expensive so you would spend more fiddling around with them.

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

then you would be largely wasting your time. The benefits of fermenting really come with using it on whole grains, not on processed feed.

I'm not sure how I didn't think of this before, but I have some home-made feed that I was giving to my hens, but I found out it wasn't balanced, so I switched to store bought feed. Well anyway, I have a bunch of this homemade "feed" leftover, which is really just glorified scratch, that I want to use up, but I never wanted to just dump it in the run floor. It has whole oats, and a bunch of seeds, so could I ferment that in a beneficial way? Thanks for all the help, and warnings!

 

[Perris]

It has whole oats, and a bunch of seeds, so could I ferment that in a beneficial way?

yes you could.

Fermenting that will first remove the misleadingly named 'anti-nutritional factors', which are better thought of as *anti-digestive* factors, which are compounds the plant puts into the seed to try to stop it being digested, so it can germinate when the consumer poops it out undigested. They are mostly tannins - the same sort of compounds that turn animal hides into leather. By reducing or getting rid of them, the whole seed and its nutrients are available for the chicken and its microbiome to digest. Fermenting will also cause some other changes that make the nutrients in the seeds more bioavailable, so increasing the nutritional bang for the buck from exactly the same quantity of feed.

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

yes you could.

Fermenting that will first remove the misleadingly named 'anti-nutritional factors', which are better thought of as *anti-digestive* factors, which are compounds the plant puts into the seed to try to stop it being digested, so it can germinate when the consumer poops it out undigested. They are mostly tannins - the same sort of compounds that turn animal hides into leather. By reducing or getting rid of them, the whole seed and its nutrients are available for the chicken and its microbiome to digest. Fermenting will also cause some other changes that make the nutrients in the seeds more bioavailable, so increasing the nutritional bang for the buck from exactly the same quantity of feed.

So yesterday I started the fermenting process with my homemade "feed". One thing I noticed when I poured water in was that my Sunflower seeds flout in the water, but everything else sinks to the bottom. Will this cause them to mold since they aren't fully covered with water? When I went to stir it today I didn't notice any mold at all, but it did smell kind of sweetish. I covered the jar with a paper towel and rubber band to keep it secure, do I need to bunch little holes in the towel to allow it to breathe? Also, how often should I stir it?
Thanks for all the help!

 

[Perris]

So yesterday I started the fermenting process with my homemade "feed". One thing I noticed when I poured water in was that my Sunflower seeds flout in the water, but everything else sinks to the bottom. Will this cause them to mold since they aren't fully covered with water? When I went to stir it today I didn't notice any mold at all, but it did smell kind of sweetish. I covered the jar with a paper towel and rubber band to keep it secure, do I need to bunch little holes in the towel to allow it to breathe? Also, how often should I stir it?
Thanks for all the help!
View attachment 4126668View attachment 4126669

yes sunflower seeds float; no you don't need to punch holes through the paper towel; as it's just starting, it might take 3 days to get to ferment, and I would stir it once a day until then (you'll know it's done when you see little bubbles between the grains, which work their way to the surface if you jiggle the jar). If you add and stir in a spoonful of plain live natural yogurt, it'll get there quicker, as you will be inoculating it with some beneficial lacto-bacteria (the more strains of that in the yogurt, the better; most have at least 3), besides whatever is on the surface of the grains, and in the air in your house.

You may see a sort of film form on the surface of the liquor. That is usually something called kahm yeast, which is completely harmless and can be stirred in to enhance the microbiota growing in the liquor, or scooped up and removed if you feel more comfortable with that. This is a useful well illustrated website on kahm yeast for people making kombucha: https://brewbuch.com/kahm-yeast-and-kombucha/

If anything furry and red or yellow grows on your fermented feed, it is best discarded with the grains in close proximity, but don't assume all moulds are bad; most aren't. And some are very good. The blue-green mould that appears so commonly on old bread is usually penicillin, for example. And it's also a penicillin bacterium that creates blue veins and gives a fantastic taste to Roquefort cheese. If in doubt, don't give it to your flock. It's not worth the risk.

But if it looks fine, smells fine - and by 'fine' I mean 'not off' - trust your senses, they evolved for precisely this purpose - give a little to your birds, and let them be the judge. I find they much prefer it rinsed, rather than covered in the fermented feed liquor, which can be a bit gloopy. Save some of that liquor for your next jar, which will then be ready in 24 hours or less, and the rest of it makes a great plant food, diluted as you think fit. Your flock may take a while to acquire a taste for it, so just offer a little at a time, and adjust as things develop. Typically the boldest bird will have a go first and the rest will follow suit when they see it's a safe new food.

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

yes sunflower seeds float; no you don't need to punch holes through the paper towel; as it's just starting, it might take 3 days to get to ferment, and I would stir it once a day until then (you'll know it's done when you see little bubbles between the grains, which work their way to the surface if you jiggle the jar). If you add and stir in a spoonful of plain live natural yogurt, it'll get there quicker, as you will be inoculating it with some beneficial lacto-bacteria (the more strains of that in the yogurt, the better; most have at least 3), besides whatever is on the surface of the grains, and in the air in your house.

You may see a sort of film form on the surface of the liquor. That is usually something called kahm yeast, which is completely harmless and can be stirred in to enhance the microbiota growing in the liquor, or scooped up and removed if you feel more comfortable with that. This is a useful well illustrated website on kahm yeast for people making kombucha: https://brewbuch.com/kahm-yeast-and-kombucha/

If anything furry and red or yellow grows on your fermented feed, it is best discarded with the grains in close proximity, but don't assume all moulds are bad; most aren't. And some are very good. The blue-green mould that appears so commonly on old bread is usually penicillin, for example. And it's also a penicillin bacterium that creates blue veins and gives a fantastic taste to Roquefort cheese. If in doubt, don't give it to your flock. It's not worth the risk.

But if it looks fine, smells fine - and by 'fine' I mean 'not off' - trust your senses, they evolved for precisely this purpose - give a little to your birds, and let them be the judge. I find they much prefer it rinsed, rather than covered in the fermented feed liquor, which can be a bit gloopy. Save some of that liquor for your next jar, which will then be ready in 24 hours or less, and the rest of it makes a great plant food, diluted as you think fit. Your flock may take a while to acquire a taste for it, so just offer a little at a time, and adjust as things develop. Typically the boldest bird will have a go first and the rest will follow suit when they see it's a safe new food.

This is super informative, so thank you! I took your advice and added Greek Yogurt. Do I need to store it in the fridge to prevent the yogurt from going bad?