How do you know if it's lemon (ig)?

[Meara]

Is there some way to tell visually if a bird has lemon (ig) rather than some variation of buff that has been lightened by other modifiers (such as Db or Di)?

 

[nicalandia]

Is there some way to tell visually if a bird has lemon (ig) rather than some variation of buff that has been lightened by other modifiers (such as Db or Di)?

on a restricted bird?(black tail red, or red columbian) or in a wild type looking bird?

 

[Meara]

On a restricted bird.
And what if the bird also has autosomal red or mahogany? How would those interact with ig?

 

[nicalandia]

On a restricted bird.
And what if the bird also has autosomal red or mahogany? How would those interact with ig?

recessive ig cream its kinda new and its interaction with other genes or alleles are few..ig cream seems to be a weak pheomelanin dilutor and some people that work with the gene have stated that it can´t dilute Mahogany enhanced birds..

I´ll be posting pics soon...

 

[nicalandia]

Ok here I go and explain why I think ig cream is a weak diluter(compared to Silver, Het Silver, Dilute Di and lavender)

so far recessive autosomal ig cream(ig as opose to dominant wildtype counterpart Ig+) has been breed on none red enhanced birds(wildtype gold)

here is a WildType dutch bantam as base color


Here is a Cream Dutch bantam rooster


Now here comes a Golden Dutch bantam I say Golden because he is S/s+ (Henk´s bird)


and a Silver Dutch Bantam rooster from Henk too


now keep in mind these birds don´t have any red enhancers at all, how would that cream dutch bantam look if he was enhanced(by autosomal red? )

below are a comparison between a Black Breasted Red OEG(e+ duckwing red enhanced) and a wildtype dutch bantam




a few thoughts on columbian restricted birds with ig cream

 

[Meara]

Hmmm Pictures certainly help. I periodically teach college genetics and have a background in wildlife genetics, but that has only helped me understand the written material on the genetics of chicken colors. There is simply no substitute for on the ground experience looking at real birds! Book learning can only go so far. I still struggle with looking at a bird and being able to dissect it's color genetics. I'm thrilled to be able to pick the brains of the experts on this forum

So ig/ig does not show phenotypically in red enhanced birds? And therefore if a bird shows those red enhanced colors as well as a lemon or cream color there are different genetics at work other than ig. Do I understand that correctly?

And what about those columbian restricted birds???

 

[nicalandia]

Is there some way to tell visually if a bird has lemon (ig) rather than some variation of buff that has been lightened by other modifiers (such as Db or Di)?

given the nature of recessive autosomal ig cream(two copies of the gene need to be pressent) and its genetic distribuition on current chicken breeds, there is a 90% that what you are seeing is not ig cream and most likely a buff mix or even a golden(silver columbian x buff columbian) mix..

So ig/ig does not show phenotypically in red enhanced birds? And therefore if a bird shows those red enhanced colors as well as a lemon or cream color there are different genetics at work other than ig. Do I understand that correctly?

And what about those columbian restricted birds???

ig its kinda new and so far there has not been any documented interaction(or genetic paper work published) with a known red enhanced bird..

I´ll be posting pics of columbian restricted birds soon...

 

[nicalandia]

so far I have yet to see a solid columbian restricted bird(by Db and/or Co) without any other pattern gene diluted by recessive autosomal cream ig


Gold mille fleur(just plain old Columbian on a none red enhanced bird) and a Citroen Mile(with ig cream) and a Goldend(S/s+) spangled penkin mix




now the Golden one(S/s+)



to be fair seems like even homozygous Silver(S/S) can´t dilute a Mahogany enhanced Columbian bird(with Autosomal red also helping out), BUT Di(autosomal Dominant Dilute of Pheomelanin) can and will Dilute mahogany on columbian restricted birds...

 

[Meara]

Thank you, this has been an excellent clarification!
I don't show birds, not yet anyway. I did not fully comprehend how many varieties are called "lemon such and such" based on appearance and not on genetics. Like all those lemon blue varieties....

I knew d'uccles were one of the breeds with ig. What are some of the other breeds?

 

[nicalandia]

I did not fully comprehend how many varieties are called "lemon such and such" based on appearance and not on genetics. Like all those lemon blue varieties....
I knew d'uccles were one of the breeds with ig. What are some of the other breeds?

Blue tends to fade Pheomelanin(gold/red feathers) on a none red enhanced bird(lack of mahogany or autosomal red) but this dilution is further enhanced by the Birchen "e" allele(ER)

all lemon blue birds should be based on ER(gold Birchen)

Dominant White tend to Fade and Dilute Pheomelanin color in all e allele backgrounds

I will post some pics latter