How horses learn... need some ideas for an issue I have

[duckluck]

Quote:

I don't think it has a thing to do with the Arab breed...I have found that of all the horses I have worked with in the last 20 years, and it has been a fair amount, that the Arabs are the least likely to act up about their feet being done and they are the most limber and balanced with their legs, especially when standing on fewer than all four feet. One of my Arabs could have both legs on the same side in the air at once for two farriers to work at the same time.

 

[MaggieRae]

Let me talk to my trainer tomorrow about some ideas I have and then I'll get back to you. The best thing I can say now is that you need repetition. Get everyone you can out there to work with her. EXPOSURE! EXPOSURE! EXPOSURE! That's the best way I've found to get horses truly 'bomb proof' (I have a hard time with that phrase because I've never encountered a horse that never spooks). Men, women, children. Get people who are persistent and have the capability to work with her.

 

[lockedhearts]

I have had horses for almost 35 years and have broke out more than my fair share. Honestly, if it was me, at her age, I would give a light dose of Rompum when the farrier comes out. It will be way less stress for her and for the farrier. I have a 16 year broodmare, no one has a clue what happened in her younger life, someone I know got her a few years ago, but never really did anything with her. I got her she was basically wild, had to have a catch rope and a bucket of feed to even have a chance of catching her, right now she is in a stall, with a blanket on sleeping like a baby.
I have worked long and hard to get her over her issues, I can clean her feet, but she gets nervous for the farrier and has tried to kick, now I love my farrier so after talking to my vet and farrier, we decided it was best to use Rompum. I give her 1cc in the vein and she is great for the farrier and is quite.
You will get varying opinions and options, but I chose to use this method for my mare, it is the best option for her, me and the farrier. I have gotten her to where she loads, unloads, I can clip her (most of the time) , clean her feet and even paste worm her. But the farrier thing was not going away no matter what we tried.

 

[chickenzoo]

To me, horses are very smart, especially Arab crosses..... What started out as a trust issue from a bad experience has now become a habit. It may be a trust problem but has now gone into a disrespect problem. I bet if she was out in the pasture and the alpha horse went to pick up her back feet, she would not act out ( speaking if horses could do that). I have watched on the training shows and in my own experience that when a horse has such problems there is lack of training there somewhere. And as horses are basically lazy critters at heart, to get respect you make them move there feetand work, then reward the behavior you want by leaving them alone or allowing them to stand still. Seems simple and why would it work? Well there is too much info to go over for me to type, but rent a good Down Under horsemanship or one of the other trainers.... but basically that is how horses train each other. I watched one of those shows with a QH mare that had the same problem, fine with the front 2 feet, kick your head in if you tried the back 2. They had a person act as a farrier, fumble with the front feet and then go for the back. As soon as that horse tried anything they made it move, in circles, back and forth, working it here and there.....whatever. Then asked the horse to stop and rest and tried again. It took awhile but eventually the horse got it........ act up and I have to keep moving and work, stand still and they'll leave me alone faster....... but just my 2 cents....

 

[txredneckmedic]

I have a similar situation. I do my own ferrier work most of the time though. My wife bought a 6 year old guarter horse that is blind on her right eye. I have been working with her for months and she follows me around like a puppydog. The only problem is whenever I go to work on her back feet....doesnt matter trim or even just a cleaning she will kick me. I have gotten used to it and it doesnt bother me anymore. I just live with it and go on with my day.

 

[Cara]

The problem with drugging a horse to shoe it is that sooner or later it will wear off. How soon? Depends on the horse, and the first the farrier may know is the blow to his head.

 

[ducks4you]

Rusty Hills Farm wrote:
This mare is remembering pain.

My old QH ("Ro Go Bar', 1982-2009, RIP) had problems with his stifles early on--bought him when he was 5 in 1987--and didn't like ANY of his farriers. When we moved out to the county I was minus a farrier for a few years. My eldest DD and I trimmed all of our horse's feet for awhile. WE were his best farriers, despite the fact that it took 2 of us working on one foot at a time. (How many of us does it take to screw in a lightbulb?!?!?

) Later on he had on and off foot problems--it was a constant struggle. I'm gonna blame bad breeding by the race horse industry on this one.

Quote:
Ro Go Bar trusted us to not hurt him, and got much better with his feet. Later I switched to an Amish farrier. He's VERY good, but he prefers to trim on a cement floor. My gelding was getting arthritic at this point, and the best trim this farrier ever gave him, was the one time a bunch of us drove him up to trim at our places, and he trimmed my gelding standing on grass, where he was much more comfortable.

Cara wrote:
The problem with drugging a horse to shoe it is that sooner or later it will wear off. How soon? Depends on the horse, and the first the farrier may know is the blow to his head.

If a horse won't let you do something--ANYTHING--you must retrain them to accept it. You'll NEVER overpower them, so you have to start small and give big rewards. I would accept the horse letting me touch around the hoof, then just letting me pick the hoof up. If the horse has had pain issues with their feet, then I'd accept being able to brush loosely around the frog without picking it out. Sometimes we groom like we're cleaning our kitchen floor. Ken McNabb had a program recently about training your horse for the farrier, and it was geared towards slow training that keeps YOU safe. And, don't forget--when you pick up a back foot, pull it backwards and rest it on you thigh.

Figure 7. Proper position when holding the hind foot. With the hock under the arm pit, ankle on knees, and foot backward (upward) the horse will submit to foot care.
From: http://horses-arizona.com/pages/articles/footcare.html
A horse must pull his foot forwards to get momentum to kick, and this gives you enough time to get out of the way in a bad situation.​

 

[MsMcChick]

Just a thought here, but i'd give it a go if i was in your situation. If you have a farrier that you know is quiet and tolerable (and open to weird suggestions), and who you also know won't be moving anytime soon (or going out of business), see if you can hire them on a regular basis (hopefully the price isn't too steep), just to come out and work with her, not really do anything, just touch, brush and pick up feet. You may find it easier if you use a minimal dose of something to calm her at least the first time or 2, but if your farrier is dedicated and worth their weight, hopefully something like this could help. Don't know what to tell you if she gets used to them and they leave the area or are off injured when you need them, but it could also open her up to new people. Farriers often if their scheduling out a few weeks ahead can look and see if they'd have an opening when their in your area, and maybe just swing in for 10 or 20 minutes. Good luck (i'm owned by a quirky dork myself, that no one likes but me

)

 

[cassie]

You might try clicker training and treats. That way she will replace her negative associations with positive ones.

 

[pasofinofarm]

I didn't read through all the posts so if someone has already said this then here it is again. Some horses have an issue that can not be fixed, period. She may only ever let those that she totally trusts pick up her back feet and I think that you should just count it a blessing that she trusts you and try to be there for her when her feet need attention. Perhaps with good experiences behind her she will come to trust others. Poor girl has obviously been tramatized.

I was the only person for all of his life that my gelding would open his mouth for. Others could force a bit but for me all I had to do was love on him a minute and tell him 'say ahhh!'.... I taught him to ride in hackamore so others could ride him, it was a compromise, I know, but not one I have ever been sorry I made.

Melissa