How horses learn... need some ideas for an issue I have

[Floss]

I don't have a horse of my own but I really wish I did, so I'm probably wrong about this, but couldn't you get a few of your friends, male and female ones, and get them to gain your horse's trust by stroking/handling her back legs or doing that funny t-touch thing on her?
That might show her that all different people are nice and that she doesn't have anything to fear when people touch her back legs?

Maybe it's because she can't see the people when they touch her back legs, and because they are kinda strangers to her, she thinks they might be going to hurt her so she is self-defending??

 

[Floss]

Sorry I didn't look at the older posts so I have just repeated what everyone else has said!!!! XP

 

[bonnylass79]

I agree that this sounds like a trust issue. Horses have very good memories and many, especially mares, are not very forgiving. She has obviously decided that you are alpha and can be trusted. I agree with everyone else who has suggested slowly introducing other handlers. Take is slow and give her lots of praise and treats for every baby step that she makes. She just needs to reassociate the action of picking up her back feet with positive experiences. It is also possible that her experience involved a man. Does she act more violently when a man tries to pick up her back foot vs a woman? My first mare was abused by men. She trusted me from day on, but it took a long time before she let a man handle her. Then again, I have another mare who can be a royal prick for me and yet will do anything my husbands asks of her. They have their quirks. It doesn't mean that they should get away with them, but you can use them to adjust your approach. If your mare has more of an issue with men, then get as many men handling her as possible. Grooming her, feeding her, walking her, whatever. Show her that men can be trusted too.

It can take a long time to reassociate bad experiences. Don't get impatient. She's already made a lot more progress then her precious owners probably expected of her. And I wouldn't let something like her kicking embarrass you. Kicking out with the back feet is a fairly common behaviour that farriers deal with all the time. You're lucky that you've found a patient one. A little tranq may not be a bad idea while you are working her though this. You should still work with getting her to trust other people, but I've also seen tranq be the one thing to get a horse to realize there's nothing to be afraid of.

 

[pnp4kidz]

I do horse rescue, so we've had a few with hind feet problems.
One was in training with Charles Wilhelm.... he had issues like you describe, and had some scaring on the front of both hind cannon bones. No idea if they were related, but he was on a slaughter lot when rescued, a day before shipping to Canada...
anyway, I got him to let ME handle his feet, but the point was that anyone that was working with him needed to, and be safe.
Charles' method worked for him in a day... and was simple.
He used a buggy whip (the length that is like 4 ft long, with a one foot loose ropie thing at the end) and did not attempt to touch the leg at first with 'his' hand, just with the whip.
He desensitized him with it first, which was easy as Charles uses a whip to do all kinds of extension of his arm in the exercises on the ground and in the saddle...
then he tapped on the fetlock... asking him to lift the foot...
when he did, and held it for a second, he got a 'good boy'
when he swatted or kicked... he got a sharp 'no' and a hard rap with the whip.
no emotion in it, and no lasting thoughts on 'good' or 'bad'...
he kept asking... tap tap, and rewarded the lift and hold, asking for longer and longer...
and gave him a negative on the kicking...
in a five minute span of time (for each side) this guy was lifting his foot on a tap, and holding it for however long til he was patted and allowed to set it down.
then, when Charles or the farrier gave it a try...
amazing but he just lifted it nicely, and held it for them no problem...
never had to do it again.

Now, on to another of ours, who came with a HUGE proudflesh on his left hind fetlock, the size of a softball... said tissue was cut off by first vet, who said the horse 'tried to kick his lights out' when he 'got anywhere near the rear of the horse'... not good. Horse had to be fully sedated to even LOOK at the hind foot while in quarantine (he was also a feedlot rescue... sad. someone dumped him to the killer due to a cut on his leg) I got him... huge open wound on his entire back of the rear fetlock... needing twice daily dressing changes... and medication... LOL...
With this boy, what worked was talking to him, and when he lifted it, holding ONLY the hoof... and not the fetlock (which hurt!) and letting him take his time to relax it and then I could do the dressing. I had to let him know only a few times that kicking out was unacceptable... past that, I lifted, and held, and did that a few times, then had farrier ask... but was specific to him to grab the hoof... that way the horse knew what we were doing.
Many times the farrier will grap the fetlock to position the foot... and that must have hurt still.
This horse is still with us, and three years later fully sound and competing in gymkhana with my daughter.... and still is worried about the hinds, but if asked nicely, and allowed to let his anxiety pass... will let anyone pick up his feet now.

I hope you can find a way thru this... you do need to let them know it is unacceptable, and let them know what IS acceptable, but beyond that, it is desensitizing...