How many on the go at once to sustain your consumption?

[Taranakian]

I'm new to chooks. So new that our first 20 Orpingtons (mixed between blue, black, and splash) just went in the incubator yesterday (so I guess I don't even have chooks yet).

We're working on plans for coops, and runs, and long-term management strategy, but one planning hurdle I keep bumping up against is...how many should we have at once? I'm sure we'll experiment and figure out what works best for us, but I'd love to hear more about how other people manage their meat flock numbers to sustain themselves.

We eat one store bought chicken a week at between 1.5 - 1.8kg between the two of us and probably only a couple dozen eggs a month so that's not our primary concern (though I'm sure we'll start eating more when they're here and convenient and we've got to figure out something to do with them anyways). We're in a temperate climate in Taranaki, New Zealand. We experience frosts frequently but not consistently - temperatures down to about -5C overnight, but by midday we're back into double digits. I think 11C is the lowest high I've seen this year so pretty mild compared to many of the posts I've read here - and plenty of year round forage. We're on a rural acre, surrounded by farmland, and a bush block so I've got no limitations on my potential numbers other than how many I'm willing to care for at one time. Fencing out of garden beds is currently my only limit to free ranging, but I hope to have that sorted, or at least started by the time they're old enough to be garden pests.

What is your strategy for keeping yourself with enough chickens in the freezer?
Do you raise your annual needs all in one go?
Do you break it up into a 6 monthly rotation?
Do you hatch weekly/monthly and cull on a similar rotation?
Something else I'm too inexperienced/ill-informed to know anything about yet?

I saw in another thread someone recommended hatching 26 at once, then waiting a few months and hatching another 26, and culling bird a week after that. I could see the sense of that, but I haven't found any threads that went into any depth with alternate strategies so I'd really appreciate any wisdom you could offer.

Thanks heaps!

 

[Molpet]

I have been letting broodies hatch and raise. I have 40 hens and sell eggs. Almost half go broody, Between May and October.
I mainly roast. I start harvesting at 16 weeks.
Cooking method determines age.

Anymore since I got covid, I harvest 2, part out and freeze what I'm not cooking. In the winter I use the frozen parts.
But it's just me and it's easier than making a day of harvesting.

 

[SnackMeat]

This is just a short term project for us, but based on our experiences since this spring and planning on having no chickens by December (giving away our favorites to friends, not eating 100% of what we've raised), I would say something similar to above: 2 a week, even if you're vacuum packing the breakdown (legs, breasts, bones.) I have done a breakdown where I got the wings a few times but timewise it's not worth it unless you're one of those people who skins instead of plucks.


I will say don't count on getting stuff done by the time they're X old. That time passes *really* fast. And chicken math is a thing for a reason. You also have to factor in cockerels. I know your seasons are opposite to where I'm at so you're heading in to your spring. If you can see if anyone has a rooster they're retiring or somehow started way earlier and have a Cockerel to get rid of, it would be helpful for you to process and taste rooster or Cockerel meat.

By the time it is your summer and you are *maybe* trying spring chickens (small, about the size of Cornish hens from the store) it can be annoying to deal with making bone stock. My SO prefers to do a huge batch all at once, and I prefer to run the crock pot on the patio for 48+ hours and then strain off and freeze after cooling. That way it's not hot inside the house. But if you have the freezer space, doing it during the winter is so much easier because aside from making the house smell nice, and warming the kitchen, it's really great to take a covered pot outside when it's 19-30*F (I guess that is -7 to -1 C for you) and not have to worry about cooling it down (or some nights, freezing it

I will also say that supposedly some chickens taste better. You can look up "what breeds of chicken taste best?" And those are interesting threads to read. Orpingtons are very affectionate (or can be) so you might find it harder to cull them except for the cockerels.


I will also say if you look around for people who are selling eating eggs, often times those are fertilized (you can ask about breeds and if they have roosters, and this way you can also offer to take any unwanted roosters to cull.) oftentimes (but not always) they are backyard mixes. And if they come from pure breeds, the F1 generation has what's considered hybrid vigor. Long story short, a mix of birds can help because you can always cull and process before the 4-6 month time range when you have to decide if you'll have pure breeds or backyard mixes (and you can have both but would pen the pure bred hens for a month, and add the rooster towards the end to guarantee purebred eggs.)




Though, also it is worth saying that had I to do this over again, I would have started with turkey eggs, then done duck eggs (or ducks), then chicken eggs. Ducks get to a useable weight fastest. I don't know how much you use turkey, but turkey takes a long time. So ducks would be the big meat provider early and then chickens would slowly start being added to the freezer because they take longer.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I haven't found any threads that went into any depth with alternate strategies so I'd really appreciate any wisdom you could offer.

My goals are to raise them for meat and to play with genetics, two goals that go well together. The eggs are a nice bonus but I get way more than I can eat. I give extras to friends and relatives or donate them to a food bank.

My main flock is one rooster and 6 to 8 hens. I only have one freezer and have a large garden, berries, and a fruit orchard. I can or freeze a lot of produce. My freezer space is often limited at times, especially when I'm storing berries to get enough to make a batch of jelly or jam or various veggies to make soup. My seasons are obviously opposite to yours and my climate is a bit harsher. I eat both cockerels and pullets. Since I play with genetics I usually keep one new cockerel every year to be my flock master for the next year's chicks. And I have a rotation where I keep 3 or 4 pullets every year and replace 2-year-old hens to keep egg production up and, again, play with genetics.

Through trial and error I have determined that I need around 40 to 45 chickens a year to eat. Between vacations, traveling to see grandkids, and scheduled events at night that gives me enough chicken. There are only two of us. I get two meals a week out of a chicken, even a small pullet. On Thursday's I bake a chicken and use the leftover meat for soup on Saturdays. When I butcher them I save certain parts to use to make broth, as well as save the bones from the eating pieces.

In February I usually use an incubator and hatch around 20 chicks. They are usually about 16 weeks old by early July and the meat in the freezer is about to run out. So I start butchering the cockerels that I do not plan to keep as my new flock master. By 23 weeks I've made my decision as to which will be my new flock master and the rest of the boys are in the freezer.

I keep the pullets until they are about 8 months old. That way I can get an idea about how they are laying and make my decision as to which ones I might keep as my replacement layers.

I've bred my flock so the hens go broody a lot. So when they go broody in late spring through summer I use them to hatch out and raise another 20 to 25 chicks. Most years that works out but if I have to I'll use the incubator to hatch another batch in summer. If you depend on broody hens it can be irregular.

Of course there are exceptions to this. Since I play with genetics I sometimes want to bring in new traits. To maintain genetic diversity you need to bring in new genetics every once in a while. When I want new genetics I'll order day-old male chicks of the breed I want from a hatchery to arrive in February. Not sure what your options are in New Zaland. I get about 20 and eat all but the one I want to be my new flock master. That gives me a lot of options so I can keep a good one. This creates a problem as this would give me no pullets to keep from this age group so I might order a few pullets of a specific breed or hatch a few eggs timed with the order, hoping to get some good pullets to keep. You have to be flexible. Sometimes I break out the incubator in late April and hatch a bunch to get some pullets I can evaluate before winter but before 8 months.

The ones from the big hatch in February keep me in chicken until the spring/summer hatch are big enough to butcher. I usually have three summer broody broods to get to 20 to 25 chicks. Sometimes my freezer is so full I have to make a batch of jam or jelly or maybe can soup to free up freezer space before I can butcher. A lot of shuffling but I make it work.

There are a lot of different strategies you can use. Many people only butcher cockerels and sell pullets to help pay for feed. Some rely only on broody hens, some only on incubators. Some eat chicken a lot more often than I do. I don't know your limitations in New Zealand, you may have to go straight run instead of getting sexed chicks. You'll have to find your own way and figure out what works for you. That may take two or three years of trial and error.

Good luck!

 

[Taranakian]

Thanks everyone. This has been very informative, and I appreciate the time you've taken to help me on my way to figuring out a self-sustaining path.

It sounds like no one is really just hatching out, say, 4 to 6 chicks a month to keep the stock rate down to it's lowest conceivable numbers to provide one chicken a week.

I have been letting broodies hatch and raise. I have 40 hens and sell eggs.

Do you have a rigid stock number that you try to keep to? Or do you respond to whatever it is your girls provide? It suddenly occurs to me the drive for hard and fast rules may just be inexperience trying to de-risk/optimise this endeavour and maybe one just learns how to adapt.

I have done a breakdown where I got the wings a few times but timewise it's not worth it unless you're one of those people who skins instead of plucks.

I've got no interest in making things harder for little return, thanks for the heads up. Plus I have a great dog who would love to take care of anything with leftover meat/bones. Besides, she's going to lose her first right of refusal to our kitchen scraps when the chooks come along, so I've got to make it up to her somehow.

If you can see if anyone has a rooster they're retiring or somehow started way earlier and have a Cockerel to get rid of, it would be helpful for you to process and taste rooster or Cockerel meat.

That's a great idea, thanks. We used to get chickens from a rare breeds farmer down the road. They were much closer to what chickens would have been like when humans first started eating chickens. Small, all dark meat, stringyAF and just didn't taste very good at all. I don't have synesthesia, but still they tasted like the colour grey. Anything is going to be a huge improvement from that, but it's definitely worth trying to make sure.

But if you have the freezer space, doing it during the winter is so much easier...

We have bone broth every day instead of coffee. Winter is much easier because our wood range is going all the time anyways. This year we've started collecting and processing the tallow. It'll save us hundreds over the course if the year in offsetting our olive oil use alone.

Orpingtons are very affectionate (or can be) so you might find it harder to cull them except for the cockerels.

Defo going to find culling hard. I've culled a couple of ducks in the past. It was hard/sad, it took me hours of lead up, but they were delicious.

A big part of what kicked this off for us is that New Zealand is on the cusp of running out of natural gas, with no way to quickly/easily inject imported gas, no new wells coming online, and a major shift in industry towards electrification (which currently needs natural gas to ramp up electrical production when we're not generating enough from our renewables portfolio). If we're lucky we've got 5 years of gas left. I don't think we're going to collapse, but it does seem like things are going to get uncomfortable for awhile, and it would benefit us to be as self-sustaining as possible in general, but especially during that time.

So in that vein, I'm treating this as if I don't have a choice, heartbreaking as it may be. From what we had available to us, and what research I did, Orpingtons were the best dual purpose breed that I could use to maintain a flock long term. Their nature is a definite con for my purposes, but it is what it is.

In February I usually use an incubator and hatch around 20 chicks. They are usually about 16 weeks old by early July and the meat in the freezer is about to run out. So I start butchering the cockerels that I do not plan to keep as my new flock master. By 23 weeks I've made my decision as to which will be my new flock master and the rest of the boys are in the freezer.

I keep the pullets until they are about 8 months old. That way I can get an idea about how they are laying and make my decision as to which ones I might keep as my replacement layers.

I've bred my flock so the hens go broody a lot. So when they go broody in late spring through summer I use them to hatch out and raise another 20 to 25 chicks. Most years that works out but if I have to I'll use the incubator to hatch another batch in summer. If you depend on broody hens it can be irregular.

This is super informative. Thank you so much. I also hear and agree with your point on genetic diversity which is part of the reason why I got the three different colours of Orpingtons. I understand they'll be more closely related than if I brought in a cockerel/rooster from a different breed entirely - which I will do some day - but I figured it was better than breeding brother to sister.

I also work to find landrace seeds, or at least grexes when I can. Unfortunately NZ is pretty limited in our genetic pool for animals and plants, so finding/maintaining true genetic diversity is hard.

You'll have to find your own way and figure out what works for you. That may take two or three years of trial and error.

And thank you for this reminder.

 

[SnackMeat]

A few other points based on what you've written:

Look into black soldier fly bins. Easy to make. You can throw entrails and bits you're not using in there and generate free protein. Assuming NZ has a good natural BSF population to draw in. I also like them because they are a non-biting and their pheromones or whatever, scare off biting flies (I have seen this season's biting flies go way down so I feel like I can speak on this firsthand. Hadn't done a damn thing for the mosquitos.)


Also, ducks have done way more for bug control. If you see opportunities for muscovies, they don't put on weight as fast as Pekin, but their meat supposedly tastes like roast beef. And while their incubation rate is for shite, if you can get them established, they brood really well and increase numbers fast.



In terms of chickens-- unless you want to sell pure breeds, I feel like mixed breed is the way to go, especially if you're in a more isolated genetic pocket.


The reason why you're not seeing people trying to rotate in small amounts of new chickens a week or month or whatever comes down to a few things:


1. Spring hatching tends to have stronger offspring. I have been hatching into summer and definitely saw a dip in incubation rate and early survival. If you have grow lights, that can help.

2. You don't want lockdown eggs with still incubating eggs. And hatching eggs can knock around eggs still incubating. Having multiple incubators can help because you can put lockdown eggs in one and have that rolling incubation you are talking about.

3. A bigger issue is that chicks need extra time and attention. Especially to catch coccidiosis which, for me, seems to hit between 1-4 weeks. If you're rolling chicks out, you'd probably be better off with medicated feed. But even then, failure to thrive, or introducing to the flock, etc.

In the beginning of the season, we had 4 hatches and a shipment and raised everyone up together despite there being maybe a six week age difference. You have to be more aware of smothering, or of tall chicks just clomping around on top of little chicks-- not to be mean but there's a height disparity. The upside to raising multiple hatch ages together is that raising bantams up with larger chickens hasn't been an issue. They're just part of the flock. The downside can be it is harder to see what doesn't fit: like coccidiosis behavior outside of reddish poop.


But early chicks are exhausting and some people just aren't into it (I like incubating and the first 3 days or so. After that, I start to be more interested in them at 6-8 weeks.) you might have a different take and really love chicks.



You're going to have so many instances of "I would have done this differently," but a lot of that can be individual to your situation. Having your coop and garden setup before chicken math hits you though, and having predator protections set up with game cameras, live traps, air rifles or BB guns if you are allowed-- that's pretty general stuff.

Another thing (and maybe I mentioned some of this before) is that having multiple breeds or breed mixes will surprise you. I was really looking forward to Bresse and have found them kind of lackluster for me. I was expecting to not like Hamburgs but the female is now my favorite. Same with the mottled java but for a different reason.

My F1 mixes (or mixes in general since I got them from someone else's flock so can't say 100% the parents were pure bred) have had the lowest death rate. We lost one to coccidiosis early on (symptoms were subtle at first and no reddish poop) but other breeds lost several.

I've greatly enjoyed my Brahma mixes but have found white feathered feet breeds are a no because their legs look awful.

My Orpingtons are fine, sociable. Cuddly. But they're not my favorites.


My red leghorns are a bane. And they were supposed to be the friendliest of my leghorns. But good God, I've been trading them off or culling.


I hated my polish at first because they were such drama queens. But now they've settled down a lot and are pretty cool to have around.



Anyway, long story short: there are good reasons to have solo breed flocks, but based on what you've told me (and especially because we are raising meat birds we do have the benefit of not having to worry as much about, say, a decade long breeding plan for flock improvement-- you can start over from scratch every season if you want) I don't think a solo breed fits your goals/needs.


The near part about starting out in the beginning is (and I assume it's this way where you are as well) is that poultry people are legion. But sometimes hard to find. Once you start networking, you'll have opportunities for rehomed poultry, even if they know you are likely going to cull for meat. And being open to the various breeds and even species, it's pretty cool who has what, what they're breeding/trading/selling. And they can give you and indication for what works in your area and what doesn't. Though I wouldn't try to breed/sell what they are doing because you don't want to step on toes (unless it is a really rare breed where more birds is better for everyone.)

 

[Molpet]

Do you have a rigid stock number that you try to keep to? Or do you respond to whatever it is your girls provide? It suddenly occurs to me the drive for hard and fast rules may just be inexperience trying to de-risk/optimise this endeavour and maybe one just learns how to adapt.

I keep about 2x as many chickens and turkeys that I really need. Then predator comes around I still have plenty...at least that's my excuse.

I eat the cockerels and jakes. the pullets I keep the heaviest and sell the small ones. But when I got covid I didn't keep up selling. I had coyote and fox issues last year. Which took care of the old and stupid hens...of course my favorite old hen.