How much land is needed to feed two adults for the year?

[Sally PB]

something to keep in mind: if things get so bad you have to grow all your own food you might not be able to buy replacement seeds, and if they don’t get that bad you’re still saving money on seed packets every year.

Seed saving is a topic near and dear to my heart.

If you're interested, get a copy of a good seed saving book.

I have this one:
https://www.chelseagreen.com/produc...MIw4uvx9aFhwMVIyvUAR1v6wv_EAQYAiABEgIKYPD_BwE

Some produce is easy to save seed from (peas and beans), some are a bit more work (tomatoes).

Some varieties will readily cross with more of their kind and need long distances or other protection measures to ensure this doesn't happen, like corn, which is wind pollinated.

Some plants don't produce seed until the second year, like beets.

Some plants that you wouldn't think are related will cross with each other, like the brassicas, which includes kale, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, collards and more.

 

[nao57]

There are other ways to kill weeds.

My favorite ones:

--A pen of chickens or pigs, or practically any other animal. Eating the weeds, trampling on them, and pooping on them, will kill quite a few things in time.

--Cover the area with something that is not plastic. I like thick layers of paper and/or cardboard, because they kill the weeds, keep new ones from sprouting for a while, and then decompose to fertilize the soil. To keep them from blowing away, put something on top: wood chips or tree branches or rocks or bricks or even weeds that were pulled out of other areas (weeds on top of cardboard will often die, rather than establishing new roots and growing some more.)

I also use cardboard and wood scrap bits. It works very well. I literally spend ZERO time weeding. And that's best. Because you want your time and energy thinking about how to grow the vegetable plants and get more fruit. If anything you want your time spent on how to make up homemade fertilizers and what the N-P-K make ups of various broken down materials to be.

Thank you for bringing up your points.

I also want to encourage more people to avoid using black plastic. It is not good for the soil -> kills fertility.

 

[nao57]

Seed saving is a topic near and dear to my heart.

If you're interested, get a copy of a good seed saving book.

I have this one:
https://www.chelseagreen.com/produc...MIw4uvx9aFhwMVIyvUAR1v6wv_EAQYAiABEgIKYPD_BwE

Some produce is easy to save seed from (peas and beans), some are a bit more work (tomatoes).

Some varieties will readily cross with more of their kind and need long distances or other protection measures to ensure this doesn't happen, like corn, which is wind pollinated.

Some plants don't produce seed until the second year, like beets.

Some plants that you wouldn't think are related will cross with each other, like the brassicas, which includes kale, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, collards and more.

I think seed saving will be necessary in the future. The g o v and stores are too undependable, but not from the same reasons as each other.

 

[NatJ]

I’ve heard pouring boiling water on weeds works but have not tried it myself.

Good point, that does work. I've used it on small areas (like a few weeds in a driveway), but I have never used it on big areas because I don't want to boil, carry, and pour that much water.

If someone wants to try boiling water, I suggest starting with a small area, look at the results, and then decide whether to do more and/or whether to do it a bit differently. One kind of big weed may need more water poured directly on it, some small weeds may not need as much, etc. It may be more efficient to pour enough boiling water to kill "most" weeds, and then come back a few days later to get the ones that survived, rather than trying to be sure that everything dies the first time.

Boiling water will also kill earthworms and other soil life. Past a certain depth in the soil they will be fine, because the water cools as it goes down into the soil, but that depth will vary depending on how much water is poured in each place. I would assume they will repopulate fairly quickly to consume all the dead roots and worms and such, but I have never checked that to be sure.

 

[No Coop No Problem]

Vertical farming (ie trees) is more efficient than horizontal farming in terms of land area. A single well cultivated fruit tree can provide a generous abundance of calories

 

[nao57]

Good point, that does work. I've used it on small areas (like a few weeds in a driveway), but I have never used it on big areas because I don't want to boil, carry, and pour that much water.

If someone wants to try boiling water, I suggest starting with a small area, look at the results, and then decide whether to do more and/or whether to do it a bit differently. One kind of big weed may need more water poured directly on it, some small weeds may not need as much, etc. It may be more efficient to pour enough boiling water to kill "most" weeds, and then come back a few days later to get the ones that survived, rather than trying to be sure that everything dies the first time.

Boiling water will also kill earthworms and other soil life. Past a certain depth in the soil they will be fine, because the water cools as it goes down into the soil, but that depth will vary depending on how much water is poured in each place. I would assume they will repopulate fairly quickly to consume all the dead roots and worms and such, but I have never checked that to be sure.

Thanks!

 

[nao57]

Vertical farming (ie trees) is more efficient than horizontal farming in terms of land area. A single well cultivated fruit tree can provide a generous abundance of calories

Vertical farming is more limited though. I agree with you for its use with trees. But I tried some stuff vertical growing, and climates with high heat and LOW HUMIDITY it can be disastrous if its just grow vats and not trees. I support what you said but worried people might misinterpret parts of it. Generally things that do vertical grow vats or stuff in like pvc pipes have big challenges; and if you deviate from a very fragile balance you end up with dead plants. But for trees yes! Trees its awesome that you don't have to hardly do much except for harvest the fruit and sometimes some water.

I've found our fruit trees usually we can get about 4 or 5 buckets of fruit per year per 'good sized tree' (5 gallon buckets). This doesn't mean really big trees either. 5 gallons is generally about 40 - 45 lbs, so someone could use this to figure out how much food that is; though you do lose a bit in processing. (Our trees probably are smaller than those of you back east with a lot of water & fertility.)

 

[Sally PB]

Trees its awesome that you don't have to hardly do much except for harvest the fruit and sometimes some water.

And treat for pests. And protect from critters who want your produce.

 

[CatInTheHenHouse]

And treat for pests. And protect from critters who want your produce.

And occasionally protect from frost, if that’s a possibility in your climate.

 

[Sally PB]

And occasionally protect from frost, if that’s a possibility in your climate.

Well, I don't have the pictures I thought I took. This last spring, we had frost for three nights after the blueberries and cherry trees were in bloom. The garbage bags in the above picture were on the ground to help warm it up. Around 4pm, I put them over the bushes.

We put bed sheets over the cherry trees. I don't know if we'll be able to do that after this year's growth.

If we hadn't done this, we would have had zero blueberries and cherries. I am getting blueberries, but critters got all but a dozen cherries.