How to tell legitimate puppy ads from scammers and puppy mill ads.

[GitaBooks]

there is a reason that you will be less likely to find any responsible breeder producing a rare color, show breeder or not. rare colors tend to be recessive and that means that not only will you be doubling up on those color genes to get what you want but all of the other nasty skeletons in the genetic closet. Most health problems are recessive. Allergies, skin issues, eye problems, even cancer risk will be increased.

Since the color is not common, you have less dogs to choose from for your breeding program. That means other issues have to be overlooked to insure that you get the color you want - the first to be bypassed is often temperament. Instead of breeding the best of the best dogs to produce the next generation, you have to use "almost as good" dogs simply because they have the color you want. The next generation you have the color a bit more common but you've already doubled up on all of the health issues as well. You'll have more inbreeding since so many dogs that share the recessive color gene will have common ancestors. Plus, the easiest way to cement a recessive trait into a bloodline is through close breeding of parent/child, brother/sister, etc

Agreed. Inbreeding usually leads to health problems.

 

[h2oratt]

I am an expert in this field. I have been showing and breeding dogs for 20 years.
Do not buy a dog from this person. If you need more questions answered please PM me.

 

[dekel18042]

Quote: I have read your original post and all the responses, and you have been given excellent advice, the first and foremost to run as fast and as far as you can from this breeder. There are just too many red flags waving.
Perhaps if you named the breed and color, more specifics could be given. I do know in some breeds certain colors represent a smaller gene pool and more recessive which could cause a problem. In other breeds and cases it's just that the powers that be don't like those colors, but there is no genetic problems with them.
Usually a legitimate breeder will be very concerned about you and will have questions to ask you. Why do you want that breed? Where did you hear about her? What are your plans for the puppy? Legitimate breeders want their puppies to be happy and well cared for and will take them back if you ever find yourself in a situation where you cannot care for him. Taking the dog to a shelter or putting him into rescue is forbidden.
Familiarize yourself with any testing that should be done on the parents of your chosen breed then ask the breeder if the parents have had these tests done. For example, have the parents been OFA'd for hips, eyes cerfed, VWD and MDR1 if it is a breed that requires it.
Considering that you are adding a family member that could be with you for the next 14 or 15 years, you want to make sure everything is as right as it can possibly can be.
By the way, even if the breeder you choose doesn't show, her parent stock should still have the genetic testing. One of my dogs is from working lines in a non AKC registry and his parents had all testing done. Good luck in your search.

 

[Finnie]

there is a reason that you will be less likely to find any responsible breeder producing a rare color, show breeder or not. rare colors tend to be recessive and that means that not only will you be doubling up on those color genes to get what you want but all of the other nasty skeletons in the genetic closet. Most health problems are recessive. Allergies, skin issues, eye problems, even cancer risk will be increased.

While I agree with most of your points, I would point out that not all recessive traits are linked to each other. It depends on how closely they lie to each other on the same chromosome. All of the recessive health problems you have listed are to be found among all colors of dogs, not just the more rare or more recessive colors.

But you are quite right about breeding for one specific trait and putting it over others, that it limits the gene pool you have to work with. I didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing show breeders for not working with the specific rare color. But for the reasons you stated, there is just no point for them to bother with it, since they have so many other traits to juggle. Therefore, it just doesn't exist among their stock. Or if it does, it never happens to get paired up with another dog carrying it.

 

[Finnie]

I am an expert in this field. I have been showing and breeding dogs for 20 years.
Do not buy a dog from this person. If you need more questions answered please PM me.

Thank you for your offer. Don't worry, I agree with you and all the other posters that there are too many red flags with this person.

 

[Finnie]

 

[MakelaNJoe]

if her posting is online there should be a way to flag her, and report possble situations.

 

[dainerra]

Quote:
it isn't so much that the colors are connected to other genetic traits. simply that when you start breeding for one recessive, you are also doubling up on any other recessives that are there. and many genetic issues are recessive. so you are automatically increasing the risk of a lot of issues. when you breed for one specific trait (color, size, or anything else), you decrease the gene pool. Decreasing the gene pool is rarely a good thing. add in that you are going to be starting with less than excellent examples of the breed (or at least by lying to a responsible breeder - if a responsible breeder had a "rare" color pop up in a litter which does happen on occasion, they would sell on limited registration and require spay/neuter so anyone breeding the dog would be lying about their intentions). rare colors pop up more frequently in backyard breeders because, as a whole, they tend to be less knowledgeable. They don't test for health issues. They don't often even know what issues are possible in the breed. They don't know how to read and match pedigrees (or even that you should!). Some breed for money. Others breed for love. And, honestly, the ones who breed for love are the most dangerous of the lot. They LOVE their dog. We all love our dogs and think that they are wonderful. But "I love you" isn't a good reason to breed. You have to be honest with yourself about your dog's faults when you breed. And I mean brutally honest. "He's sweet and well-behaved" doesn't mean anything if your dog is a homebound couch potato who sometimes goes with you to walk in the park. Temperament is proved in strange environments with sudden noises and surprises. By meeting hundreds of strangers and being handled and observed by unbiased parties. It can be hard to be objective about things we love - that's why it's so important. The other problem with "rare" colors, sizes, whatever is that it actually shows not only a lack of knowledge of the breed but in some ways a disregard for the breed. The standard is there for a reason. It's what makes a GSD different from a border collie. Different from an Aussie. All are herding dogs but they aren't interchangeable. Sometimes the decisions on what is/is not allowed as far as color or size is arbitrary and based on the likes and dislikes of someone who lived 100 years or more ago. But hey, when you are the one who creates the breed it's your sandbox you get to make the rules! Other times there is actually a reason. One example from my breed - GSD - is eye color. The standard calls for a dark eye. Why? Because of the job they were bred to do - a moving fence to control flocks of sheep. After all, border collies are required to have a light eye - again because of their job of herding sheep. Why the difference? The way they are intended to work. Light eyes are frightening to prey animals like sheep - they are predator eyes. The border collie moves sheep through rushing and stares. The dark eyed GSD is not alarming to sheep as he trots past on his herding duties. His dark eyes mark him as less threatening, not a prowling predator. When they have to separate a sheep from the herd, a BC rushes and drives the sheep. Crouching and staring and taking him where he wants to go. A GSD will drive the sheep, using his size if necessary to take the sheep where it needs to go. Form follows function. Why does the GSD have the angulation that he does? We'll avoid talking about the extreme look of some show dogs which is thankfully falling out of favor in exchange for more moderate looks. But it's so that he can move the way he does. The GSD "flying trot" is because of the way his body is put together. He is made to work for hours, running the perimeter of pastureland acting as a fence without stop. So, that long rectangular shape with a certain degree of angle to certain joints allow him to do that without his body breaking down despite long hours of work for 8,9, 10 years of his life (or longer).

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Don't look for ads, look for breeders. So use your search engine and look up, for instance "bulldog breeders in Louisiana" not "bulldogs for sale in Louisiana." Find a breeder that you like first and then see if they have any puppies for that year.

 

[dainerra]

the easiest way to find a responsible breeder is to go to dog events geared toward your breed. obedience, agility, flyball, the list goes on and on when it comes to options. find dogs that you like and talk to the owner about where they purchased their dog. Don't interrupt them when they are preparing to perform but otherwise we all love to talk about our dogs!
also, check out your national breed club. they have referral lists of breeders who are members and it makes a good starting point - members agree to follow the groups code of ethics and are usually well-informed when it comes to the pitfalls and bonuses of their breed. You'll still have to do your homework and check out the breeders but it's a starting point to find several breeders listed in one place.