How young is too young to charge a child with murder

[WalkingWolf]

Quote:
Ridge I agree and think many are getting carried away on what has not even been decided. Also we are not privy to the investigation and the evaluations that are being done. And again it is against federal law to put a underage person in a adult facility even when they are convicted of a adult crime. The initial outcome would be the same as if the child was adjudicated in family court.

 

[Chickengal505]

I remember being five. Me and my friend would bang lizard's heads aganst rocks and put them under water so we could "save them" That was so wrong of me, I understand that now. Then again at five, all I wanted to do was be praised for saving the lizard, even if I'm the one who hurt it. Because I did that when I was five, does that mean I'm going to grow up to be the next mass murderer....? No. She's five. At five you don't understand cause and effect. Or that what you do to one person hurts them, even if you cant feel the pain or if they can't cry out. The little girl just needs a hug and her mommy. She must be so scared. Think of all those big grown ups making up what "really" happened... Poor kid. Both of them

 

[welsummerchicks]

You cannot diagnose Bi-Polar until after the age of 23 in women.

That is not true.

 

[cassie]

I didn't read the news report. I couldn't bring it up. But has it been proven for sure that the kid actually did it? It is by no means unheard of for a kid to get blamed for something an adult did. And confessions from children are notoriously unreliable. Often they will say what they think the adult wants to hear.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Wellsummer: All good information there. However, I personally was not defining "murder", the legal definition, or otherwise. I was pointing out that a charge like that given for a child probably meant that the parents and teen had their stories thoroughly checked out, and that attention was brought to the child for whatever reason (ie. abnormal behavior being a likely one). And that in turn limits the most likely possibilities, as it is not a common charge for a child. Definitely not one that gets tossed around. I am not involved in the case, and there isn't much information to go by. Again, it is merely a possibility, that yes, I hope will be looked at along with all the other possibilities.

Crazy: I find the opposite to be true. Even as a kid, I thought it was very demeaning how adults assumed that every child thought or developed a certain way, and hated being treated like a simple little ball of malleable wax. I only got along with adults who treated me more like an adult. I definitely understood my actions and consequences well before the age of 17, or 25 which is another age given in a comment further down. Again, developmental norms are great to know what to expect in parenting, but abnormal development occurs. I think the views on here that the *possibility* that a child may be showing signs of sociopathy is so abhorrent shows that we have a long way to go in understanding the brain as a society. It is not an insult, but is often seen as offensive...or even just an impossibility, which is perhaps worse given the literature and case studies out there. I worked with teens who, to use the example given, had bipolar (for all intensive purposes), who still received treatment and were in therapy before the recommended age of reliable diagnosis (Well, depending who you ask, but some do say that it can not be diagnosed til adulthood...and the debate is heavy on that), and some had been in treatment before that time. Since early treatment can prevent many disorders from making as extreme changes to the brain structure and functioning, this can be looked at as a very good thing. Early treatment can also help ensure that the parents do not feel so distanced from a child. Just knowing why an individual is behaving in a manner so hard to grasp can go a long way in helping to cope.

Some disorders appear to come out of nowhere in adolescence or adulthood, and some worsen during that time of large hormonal change. Some have signs that show up very early in life. Some have a wide variety of forms or degrees they can occur in. So, even with disorders that cause abnormal brain function, there is no set rule to them. Greater awareness of such disorders would likely lead to more effective programs and treatments, as well as prevent them from going unnoticed or untended. That to me, is a good thing.

I remember being five. Me and my friend would bang lizard's heads aganst rocks and put them under water so we could "save them" That was so wrong of me, I understand that now. Then again at five, all I wanted to do was be praised for saving the lizard, even if I'm the one who hurt it. Because I did that when I was five, does that mean I'm going to grow up to be the next mass murderer....? No. She's five. At five you don't understand cause and effect. Or that what you do to one person hurts them, even if you cant feel the pain or if they can't cry out. The little girl just needs a hug and her mommy. She must be so scared. Think of all those big grown ups making up what "really" happened... Poor kid. Both of them

Nope...but anyone who has at least a basic grasp on psychology would not say that you would grow up to be a mass murderer based on that. So, you can breath easy there. ;D The little girl may be traumatized and need help working through this...or she may not feel much of anything but anger and frustration if her brain functions in a certain way. In which case, all the hugs in the world will not help, just as they would not be a treatment for a person suffering from clinical depression or schizophrenia.​

 

[WalkingWolf]

Quote:
Here is the report from CBS http://abcnews.go.com/US/murder-charge-considered-girl-drowned-crying-toddler/story?id=13811620

 

[chickened]

The kid will not be tried as an adult there are too many laws and too many lawyers to argue the point. It would not be hard to argue that the child is not fit to stand trial among others.

The old way of thinking that people are "equipped" to become murderers is crapola, all people are equipped to be... well lets just say the oldest profession but they are not.only some.

 

[mom'sfolly]

No five year old should be charged as an adult. They are not adults, they are children. Most children develop the understanding that death is permanent around 5 or 6 years old. This kid may not have even understood that putting the toddler in water would kill him, and that it would be permanent.

The news articles said this happened around midnight, in a home where "several children" were being watched by a 'developmentally delayed" 16-year-old who fell asleep. The questions that should be asked are:

Why was an unreliable teen left to care for four small children?
Why were these children awake at such a late hour?
Was there any indication that the 5-year-old had anger control issues/trouble with others/etc?
Who was responsible for these children?
Why was the bathtub left filled?
What other potential lethal dangers were left in that apartment?
With several related children in the apartment, why wasn't there an responsible adult available to watch the kids?

If this child is charged, it will not be with murder. Murder has to have a premeditation. Personally, I think that the children should all be in foster care and the "killer" should be up for a whole lot of therapy for a very long time.

 

[Matthew3590]

mom'sfolly :

No five year old should be charged as an adult. They are not adults, they are children. Most children develop the understanding that death is permanent around 5 or 6 years old. This kid may not have even understood that putting the toddler in water would kill him, and that it would be permanent.

The news articles said this happened around midnight, in a home where "several children" were being watched by a 'developmentally delayed" 16-year-old who fell asleep. The questions that should be asked are:

Why was an unreliable teen left to care for four small children?
Why were these children awake at such a late hour?
Was there any indication that the 5-year-old had anger control issues/trouble with others/etc?
Who was responsible for these children?
Why was the bathtub left filled?
What other potential lethal dangers were left in that apartment?
With several related children in the apartment, why wasn't there an responsible adult available to watch the kids?

If this child is charged, it will not be with murder. Murder has to have a premeditation. Personally, I think that the children should all be in foster care and the "killer" should be up for a whole lot of therapy for a very long time.

I don't know the answers to all of them but I have a good "guess" on your first question. He might have been an unreliable teen to watch the children, but his parents most likely had a lot of trust in him. Plus if he begged to watch them and the parents were going out the parents might have thought it might have been a good time to see just how reliable he is.​

 

[Laurajean]

mom'sfolly :

No five year old should be charged as an adult. They are not adults, they are children. Most children develop the understanding that death is permanent around 5 or 6 years old. This kid may not have even understood that putting the toddler in water would kill him, and that it would be permanent.

The news articles said this happened around midnight, in a home where "several children" were being watched by a 'developmentally delayed" 16-year-old who fell asleep. The questions that should be asked are:

Why was an unreliable teen left to care for four small children?
Why were these children awake at such a late hour?
Was there any indication that the 5-year-old had anger control issues/trouble with others/etc?
Who was responsible for these children?
Why was the bathtub left filled?
What other potential lethal dangers were left in that apartment?
With several related children in the apartment, why wasn't there an responsible adult available to watch the kids?

If this child is charged, it will not be with murder. Murder has to have a premeditation. Personally, I think that the children should all be in foster care and the "killer" should be up for a whole lot of therapy for a very long time.

Well the article states that the kids had baths earlier and the tub was just left full. And the article also says that the child would harass the neighbors dog by throwing sticks and rocks at it, so she did apparently already have some hostility issues. I don't know the answer to the other questions, but I still think 5 is too young to have full comprehension and understanding of what she did and I certainly don't think there was any premeditation involved.​