Humidity in Bator...EXCELLENT INFO HERE! EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS!

[Bammony]

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Please explain to me your thinking on how humidity would cause rough navels. Also, how would opening the door make a chick sticky? I have been hatching for many years and have never seen anything like that in my years of hatching. The sticky chicks I had we're covered in a thick, sticky film.

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No. Absolutely not.

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Sure, there is a slight chance it could have been off, but I seriously doubt it. I had been using the Sportsman for about 2 months and was ready to throw in the towel when we thought we'd give this a shot.

 

[Buster]

I just checked the HovaBator (you know, the one with the humidity that's been between 76 and 84% since day 18) and I have one chick hatched and 6 more with external pips!

 

[countryboy]

woohoo go buster

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

Lisa, so what you are telling me is that your study on the hygrometer under the hen cannot be counted because you did not actually do an accurate study? That helps us out to know that we can disregard your notes for comparison on the ones we are doing now. I appreciate you updating us on your experiment! I do not feel that a friendly discussion is "opening a can of worms."

It was accurate to me --- I recorded temps and humidity for that timeframe.
You can do whatever you want with the information I offered --- regard it or disregard it, doesn't matter to me.
What works consistently for me might not work for someone with a different set-up.
Lisa​

 

[cgmccary]

Good thread but a lot of misinformation on here. [Any quotes below will be from Dr. A.F. Anderson's renown masterpiece & biblical authority on this subject, The New Incubation Book , 1979 & revised thereafter(252 pp)]

"The optimum [humidity] for incubation is about 50-60%." A lot of us reside in locales with high humidity anyway & depending on where we have our incubators makes a big difference too.

First, about mother hens & nature: Humidity has been recorded under different hens & it "showed enormous variations, depending on the site of the nest, the prevailing weather conditions, and whether the bird frequented water or not. The average figure (under a hen during natural incubation) is about 60% relative humidity." The best place for a natural nest is on the ground and the humidity doesn't come from the hen but from the ground. Obviously, this can vary greatly where you live. Here in Alabama, we have very high humidity and during the summer, my hens have hatched 100% even with 70%+ average humidity outside (and it raining all the time). Once, my hen stole her nest by the side of the house on the ground refusing to move anywhere else so I let her sit there through rain or shine-- I put a cardboard box over her when it poured. She hatched all.

Sometimes, if a hen is setting in the shed or up off the ground level and not getting the ground moisture, it may be necessary to add some moisture to the nest-- I always look at the size of the air sac -- if too small, then I don't; if too large, then I mist them. This is the best way monitor your humidity-- candling the egg.

"There is no doubt that the broody hen will beat most incubators, and it is in the first few days that she does it." That first week is the most critical time.

Also, broody hens vary-- A hen with tight feathering and more meat on the breasts make "hot hens" and a hen carrying the meat on their legs and fluffy legs and looser feathers incubate "cooler." "Generally, the bigger the egg, the hotter the hen needed."

Second, chicks don't drown in their eggs. In fact, they can be rather forgiving of you getting the humidity wrong: "It is a paradox that there is an optimum relative humidity level in successful incubation, but that this can fluctuate between very wide limits, to a far greater degree than the egg could tolerate in temperature variation. This is because the embryo does have some control over its water metabolism.

During the last third of its time in the egg, the embryo swallows the amniotic fluid and remains of the albumen that now mix with it. It can thus thus drink its way out of trouble, or not drink if it be too wet."

Many peoples' flocks become "adapted" to that person's incubator or technique & their success rate will climb over time (sort of like Evolution's natural selection). The chicks that hatch from the incubator were successful or they wouldn't have hatched. Their eggs and their chicks eggs also hatch from the incubator -- i.e. where a lot of the commercial industry eggs (whose strains have adapted over decades to the large commercial incubators) would not hatch as well under my hen naturally (or their success rate would certainly not match the commercial incubator)-- IT IS THE SAME WITH US!!--

Another general argument I'd make is that some folks have successful hatches in spite of doing things wrong & so they think that their methods are correct. Many think that if an egg is fully developed at the end and dies having pipped or not pipped, then it "must" be something they've done"wrong" at the end time-- the last few days (they'll say the chick drowned because the humidity was too high at the end-- when actually, folks are helping chicks out because it is too dry and the shells stick to the chick). However, what they don't realize, is that the chick was alive but was doomed from early on & never meant to hatch. If they got their eggs from someone else, they don't know the management practices of the breeder, handling of the eggs, storage (and that might have doomed the hatch's success (%) rate):

"Death before the establishment of pulmonary respiration: The change to breathing with its lungs is one of the biggest steps that the embryo makes. Any weakness, either inherent in the egg or caused by adverse conditions imposed upon it, will cause a high mortality at this stage. All too often, at post mortem the chick appears to be perfectly developed; it just died instead of starting to breathe. The beak has not entered the air cell.

All the faults of parent stock management, heredity, egg storage, hygiene, and disease make their mark now.

. . . It is important to remember that mistakes made earlier in incubation, such as temporary over -heating, chilling, and failure to turn in the early days, although not appearing to kill the egg at that stage, have so weakened it that it dies now."

"Death after breathing has been established: These are usually referred to as dead in the shell. The chick may or may not have chipped the shell. All the causes of a weakened embryo, either inherent in the egg or produced by poor incubation techniques, will cause death at this stage as well as before breathing commenced."

Temperature (too high and/or fluctuating) is one of the main culprits of bad hatches and not so much humidity.

Personally, I have tried the Dry Incubation Method VS. simply following the directions that came with the incubator & filling the trays accordingly AND I found my hatch rate HIGHER with the later (in both still air and circulated air models). My 100% hatches have been in my still air with me hand turning and with my OEG hen.

Long & short of it: If all other environmental conditions are highly favorable (i.e. steady & good temp; good parent stock with a good diet, etc.), then all your chicks may be so strong that humidity, wrong or not, they're going to make it.

 

[Suellyn]

!

cgmccary, My ears are wide open... the only things I know FOR SURE is that the number of variables are mind-boggling, and that I am going to try and let my eggs/air cells "tell me" what they need as far as humidity goes!!

There is a lot of very interesting info in your post; I had wondered about body temps of various breeds, but was thinking more in terms of size than feathering & muscle/meat location (am a "mammal person", and the TENDENCY with them is that smaller= faster metabolism & warmer, larger= slower metabolism & cooler). Had been wondering if my tiny Serama egg is chilly, while my big "standard mixes" were roasting, and my medium Silkie eggs feelin' juuuuuuuussst right (evil Silkies!!)

Also makes a lot of sense that death during the transition to breathing with lungs, or during the pip/hatch process is not nesc due to something going wrong "at the very end"... if there was any kind of serious flaw ANYWHERE along the way, it makes sense that it could impact the chick at those really stressful/transitional times. Most of the stillborn animals that I have seen did not die from the birthing process per se, more likely from genetic factors, or from harmful environmental factors earlier in the gestation.

Thanks for the info, I know I will re-read your post tomorrow... It is 3:30 a.m. here & my brain is shutting down!

 

[Bammony]

Very nice post cgmccary. You gave some good information there. I'll be checking out the book you mentioned.

 

[Jamie821]

I think all the parties are over finally so back to business. Didnt get three reading a day for the last couple of days but this is the ones I did get. Christmas day morning 43. afternoon 41. Friday afternoon 42. I am using a large fowl a partridge cochin. She is a very large young lady named Jean after my mom. Didnt plan on keeping her when she was a chick but my mom picked her as her favorite so she stayed and now am glad as she is a sweetie. Lisa I would ask you please not in any way to mess up this post we are trying to help everyone to get better hatches instead of failed. We all can learn here if we compare and see what is working best. After all the chicks health and lives are what is important . But I will tell you one thing Wheaties is one of the greatest and nicest and most helpful people you will ever know and he would never give anyone bad information. He is like alot of us he just doesnt have chickens he loves his chickens. The man has a heart of gold. I do agree with somethings said but What he meant by opening bator causing sticky chicks is when you open bator humidity goes out dry air comes in drying the wetness in the egg the chick needs to be able to turn in the egg to zip. As the wetness dries in the egg it becomes sticky.. I have been hatching for twenty five years and cant begin to tell you how many chicks I killed and yes I killed them by thinking I knew what I was doing. Yeah right. Please dont try to tell this woman they cant drown in the egg I have seen it happen right before my eyes. I had chicks pip no prob start zipping and was almost out and turned toward bottom of egg and the fluid was at the bottom of eggs the chick started gasping and before I could do anything it died I tied giving mouth to mouth yes I did and couldnt do anything. After watching this happen and losing so many chicks at pip and zip and a million tears over them all I started going everywhere to figure out why thats when I ran across the dry hatch method. I tried it for the first time and didnt lose a chick in that hatch. I just met wheaties in the spring when I was looking for wheaton marans eggs to hatch. When I went to his farm which unknowingly was only five miles from me just fell in love with him and his family and after getting to know him found out he had had alot of the same probs in past years and had gone to the lower humidity and his hatches had been great since also. I agree some places are more humid then others but with this broody that I have on these eggs right now I have really watched for the first time and there are things they do that I had never noticed before. Jean my broody rotates the eggs numerous times a day. By this I mean not just turning but moves the eggs from middle to outside then later reverse it. I have also noticed she lifts up off the nest at times instead of just sitting on the eggs so there is a space between her and the eggs. I have seen her do this at least a couple times a day. I dont know how many times but I see it everyday. I set the eggs sunday afternoon so hatch date is the 11th. It is winter here but she is in a covered house and her nest is two feet of the ground so we still have time to see how it goes. Will be posting everyday now since the holidays are winding down.

 

[Jamie821]

Sorry forgot to answer a question I was asked. At first I used velcro to secure the hydrometer and that only last for about a hour so not it is secured with the double sided picture hanger tape. So far she has not been able to dislodge it. I also am going to this spring try to put one under a canadian goose. Am curious see what the difference is. Dont know if I can pull it off as the geese come here to nest but am going to try/

 

[redhen]

So...whats the correct temp/humidity to hatch pekin ducks? i am enjoying this thread..it is helping me alot..thanks!, Wendy