HYPOTHETICAL DISCUSSION: What to feed your chickens when we can't buy chicken feed anymore

[mrballance]

I asked my dad this just this weekend, because when he was a kid, you just didn't buy chickens food. He said they dried corn and ground it up. Whenever there wasn't snow on the ground, you let them forage, and you didn't feed them at all in the summer--they fed themselves. I imagine they can find stuff any time there's not snow on the ground to supplement the corn. I'll bet his chickens weren't anywhere near as FAT as my spoiled girls!!!!

That is totally right. You grew grain to sell or you feed your cows and hogs. Chickens did very well on what grew around the farm. Mice, Snakes, Weeds, Grass

 

[centrarchid]

That is totally right. You grew grain to sell or you feed your cows and hogs. Chickens did very well on what grew around the farm. Mice, Snakes, Weeds, Grass

And grain that went virtually intact through the gut and intestinal tract of cows, hogs and horses. Our birds spent a great deal of time tearing up fecal pellets and did not wait for the insect communities to establish. Take a look at the poo from a grain fed how and horse to get a feel for why chickens get into it so well.

 

[Triple Willow]

Of course it's better if there are also vegetables and table scraps for the chickens to eat in addition to corn - a good idea might be to research old feed recipes.

My comment about dogs was aimed at those who get a dog and envision it as a guard dog without taking the time and effort to TRAIN the dog. I've seen a number of these "guard" (actually, pet) dogs ruin their owners' or their owners' neighbors efforts at chicken-keeping.

Having a guard dog isn't only a matter of breed - plenty of mutts can do the job just fine, if their owner spends the TIME and EFFORT to TRAIN them correctly. That's the hard part.

Yes I have some of those dogs in my neighborhood. My own dogs would be the same if allowed! I agree, a dog doesn't have to be a purebred to be useful.

I read something a while back about making small quantities of silage out of grasses. I've never tried it but I believe it would work for chickens and be good for them. Also "fermented plant juice" (FPJ), I plan on checking into that more. And there is always fermenting feed which adds to the nutrition of the feed.

 

[centrarchid]

Yes I have some of those dogs in my neighborhood. My own dogs would be the same if allowed! I agree, a dog doesn't have to be a purebred to be useful.

I read something a while back about making small quantities of silage out of grasses. I've never tried it but I believe it would work for chickens and be good for them. Also "fermented plant juice" (FPJ), I plan on checking into that more. And there is always fermenting feed which adds to the nutrition of the feed.

I think silage would useful, especially with adults during winter. Make certain they get adequate grit for such fare.

 

[Triple Willow]

And grain that went virtually intact through the gut and intestinal tract of cows, hogs and horses.  Our birds spent a great deal of time tearing up fecal pellets and did not wait for the insect communities to establish.  Take a look at the poo from a grain fed how and horse to get a feel for why chickens get into it so well.

Yep. lol That reminds me of those coffee beans that are being sold that have passed through some breed of monkey. lol

 

[SunnySkies]

Regarding LGDs...they actually eat no more, and perhaps less, than a Labrador retriever, even though they are generally 30 lbs or more heavier than a Lab at adulthood. They originated eating whatever they could glean...there isn't anywhere to buy dog food in the Pyrenean mountains, lol. I'd have no trouble feeding my LGDs a mix of whatever I have along with cull roosters, etc, and I'm sure they would do just fine.

 

[Beekissed]

And when things get really down and dirty, they have more meat on them than a smaller breed. That's why I always keep a bigger dog...never know when you are going to have to eat them and the bigger the better.

 

[centrarchid]

Regarding LGDs...they actually eat no more, and perhaps less, than a Labrador retriever, even though they are generally 30 lbs or more heavier than a Lab at adulthood. They originated eating whatever they could glean...there isn't anywhere to buy dog food in the Pyrenean mountains, lol. I'd have no trouble feeding my LGDs a mix of whatever I have along with cull roosters, etc, and I'm sure they would do just fine.

Do the math on how many chickens, sheep or goats to just to support a single dog. Then take into account you will want more than one dog under most situations. I did it and did not like results. After that you have to have additional animals for your use. We need to look into how many sheep or goats are kept by herders in the Pyrenean mountains. Such people make living at it so it is a lot more than I can keep. The real fun comes when we consider those herds with their attendant dogs must move around a lot to prevent overgrazing. The ranging habits of my birds would not mesh well with what the herds and dogs would be doing.


You get into real trouble when you want to raise pups. To keep just about any kind of dog without current access to formulated diet you must be relatively rich, otherwise dog must invest more of its time drumming up eats itself and that will conflict with guarding duty.

 

[SunnySkies]

But the LGDs of antiquity caught their prey. They were often out there with no supervision for weeks, and nobody provided anything for them. And a sheep does not die every day or even every week. This led to dogs with low metabolisms.

I know my dogs have eaten things they killed and lived off it for a few days. Sometimes, they just won't eat their food, but I can tell they ate something (I am a vet, after all). When we killed chickens this fall, I fed the dogs for a week off the innards and feet, until I got tired of stinky guts and threw them away. I'm not too fussed about how I'd feed my dogs, as I have space and land to raise a lot of different critters to provide for my family (I already do this) and a large garden. I'd be more concerned if I had a high energy dog that could not help provide its own food.

 

[centrarchid]

But the LGDs of antiquity caught their prey. They were often out there with no supervision for weeks, and nobody provided anything for them. And a sheep does not die every day or even every week. This led to dogs with low metabolisms.

I know my dogs have eaten things they killed and lived off it for a few days. Sometimes, they just won't eat their food, but I can tell they ate something (I am a vet, after all). When we killed chickens this fall, I fed the dogs for a week off the innards and feet, until I got tired of stinky guts and threw them away. I'm not too fussed about how I'd feed my dogs, as I have space and land to raise a lot of different critters to provide for my family (I already do this) and a large garden. I'd be more concerned if I had a high energy dog that could not help provide its own food.

I do not know how far back antiquity goes but one of the characteristics often advertised about LGD's is their low prey drive. I also was under the impression that herds had at least one person out with them, also sleeping with the flock. That person was usually a teenage male like which often persists in the middle east. This was in part needed to keep flocks separate, especially based on owner ship and having dogs from different flocks coming together.


When feed intake is known, the LGD's are not as energy efficient as needed to go for extended periods without feeding at least as much as a mid sized dog.


My chickens are harvested seasonally and I whittle the flock to just about 70 broodfowl for winter. The number I keep currently with use of imported feed is several times what I could support on the same land by free-range foraging alone. Same ground might support 20 birds and egg production would not start until April.

Some of the high energy dogs are more suited for hunting, especially in heavy brush for rabbits and squirrels which are likely to provide year round meat for table and dog. The same dogs have also be used to go after raccoons and groundhogs. Going after game often requires team work between human and dog.