I have an androgynous chicken

[azygous]

Gotta listen to the song right through to the final line to get the paradox of the song lyrics. I loved that song but never really listened to the lyrics.

I think Big Girl is probably non-binary, neither gender. But the old term hermaphrodite will do.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Gotta listen to the song right through to the final line to get the paradox of the song lyrics. I loved that song but never really listened to the lyrics.

I think Big Girl is probably non-binary, neither gender. But the old term hermaphrodite will do.

I loved the beat and music of that song from the first time I heard it too, although when I first heard it, I was too young and innocent to understand the lyrics.

I believe the new term for BigGirl's possible condition is intersex. (Having both ovarian and testicular tissue.) I used the old term "hermaphrodite" because I found a case that most closely described her appearance.

"Three birds from a flock of 125 bantam cochin chickens were true hermaphrodites, having both ovarian and testicular tissues. These birds were recognizable by their intermediate comb size, intermediate plumage, and spur development."

Apparently, birds such as the above have triploid sex chromosomes, ZZX.

But I'm open to the possibility than Big Girl could be one gender only, with damaged reproductive organ(s) causing her in-between appearance. (Her behaviors are mostly female, hence her name.) I plan to try and find a lab that can test if a bird has dna for both genders, and not just the predominant sex. (Haven't looked into it yet.) Meanwhile, if anyone who sees this thread knows of a lab that does more in-depth dna testing than IQ Genetics, I'm all ears.

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

It is actually rather common in turkeys for a male to have damaged testicles and develop like a large hen.

 

[Lenny loves chickens]

Hi thank you for you reply. Big Girl was hatched March 2018, so she will be 4 years old this coming March 2022. When I mentioned "7-8 months old" , that was when I gave her her name. She has looked and acted the same Since she was 7-8 months old, back in 2018.

I would never cull her just to examine her sex organs ( she is an extremely sweet and gentle bird and has never caused a problem in any way.) But it has crossed my mind to perform/have performed a necropsy on her after she passes away. (Hopefully after she lives a long, good life.) I refer to Big Girl as "her" because her behaviors are female, but her appearance is not. I suspect she may be a true hermaphrodite. It may also be possible to have her DNA tested while she is alive; I'm not sure. Big girl is for sure an interesting chicken; I don't expect to ever have another like her!

I need a big calm lady like that haha

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Hi everyone. I last posted on this thread 10+ months ago. Soon after my last post, I read a Lot about the subject of "intersex", including in birds and mammals. The subject is Very complicated, & gave me a new understanding and empathy for the issues intersex humans contend with. But I decided against sending in Big Girl's feathers for DNA testing at that time, since the lab said they could only determine the most predominate sex, and I couldn't find any labs that could determine if she was Both genders. I decided I would wait until Big Girl passed away before seeking testing. And now I'm sadly back much sooner than I had hoped to be.

Big Girl began to slowly but surely lose weight over the past few months. (I picked her up at least once weekly to check.) Throughout her gradual weight loss, Big Girl continued to exhibit her normal behaviors and interact with her flock. To the end she remained a happy carefree chicken. If not for the weight loss I never would have known anything was wrong. But a few days before she died, I saw her slightly sway/stumble while standing beneath my feet, and knew the end of her life was drawing near. I once again tried to find a lab that could test to determine if her DNA showed she was intersex. After no luck I contacted my state lab that performs avian necropsies. The veterinary pathologist verified that "Yes, Big Girl's gonads can be microscopically examined to see if they contain both ova and testicular tissue." So when Big Girl died, I sent her body in for testing.

I will post the full necropsy report if anyone wants to read it. (And when I figure out how to transfer the report from email to here, and delete my personal information contained in the report.) For those who don't wish to read through it, below are the results. FYI I paid for a gross necropsy to determine her cause of death, as well as microscoscopic examination of her reproductive tissues.

Gross Necropsy Examination:
Reproductive system: The oviduct is small and immature. In the area of the ovary are two oblong, tan gonads that appear similiar to testicles.
Gross Necropsy Diagnosis:
Adenocarcinoma with carcinomatosis
Intersex

Comments:
The changes to the gonads and the external characteristics of this chicken support the clinical suspicion of this chicken being intersex.

Histopathy Of Select Tissues:
Cause of death: metatastic carcinoma
Gonad: Ovotestes

Comments: The gross diagnosis of this chicken being an intersex bird is confirmed on histologic examination of the gonads and reproductive tract.

Thank you to everyone who posted or reacted on Big Girl's thread. I am now going to tag all of you to be sure you learn her official gender results, since before we all could only speculate. I apologize if I've missed anybody.
@Mhcanupp @kurby22 @azygous @Iluveggers @LadiesAndJane @EmmaEsme @Jasna Jov @Sammster @Shadrach @TheHerbs3 @Aquira @SueT @Isadora @BirdsBeesTrees @Lacy Duckwing @ChickenLeg @Tervuren @ColtHandorf @CoconutCoffee @Jenessa_096 @aldarita @Cecisflock @JacinLarkwell @Weeg @LaFleche @3KillerBs @sourland @RubelliteRose @ButtonHoarder @Paz @Overo Mare @Chickengirl2671 @Sortacountrychicken @NatJ @HollowOfWisps @6 Beach Chicks @JedJackson @tripletfeb @aart @Bigtom Turkey @Lenny loves chickens

Big Girl was both male and female. She had an oviduct, ovary and testes.

But that combination caused her to be sterile and exhibit no sexual behaviors of either gender, other than a brief period of time when she was two years old and semi-crowed, and also ocassionally when she clucked like a hen. Big Girl was very unique in appearance and had a very gentle nature. I will always miss her presence among her flock.

 

[NatJ]

Thank you to everyone who posted or reacted on Big Girl's thread. I am now going to tag all of you to be sure you learn her official gender results, since before we all could only speculate....
Big Girl was both male and female. She had an oviduct, ovary and testes.

Thank you very much for updating. It is nice to know the actual answer to the mystery

But I'm sad that Big Girl died

 

[azygous]

Absolutely fascinating. Thanks so much for following up on this. Big Girl is now a BYC legend.

 

[kurby22]

Hi everyone. I last posted on this thread 10+ months ago. Soon after my last post, I read a Lot about the subject of "intersex", including in birds and mammals. The subject is Very complicated, & gave me a new understanding and empathy for the issues intersex humans contend with. But I decided against sending in Big Girl's feathers for DNA testing at that time, since the lab said they could only determine the most predominate sex, and I couldn't find any labs that could determine if she was Both genders. I decided I would wait until Big Girl passed away before seeking testing. And now I'm sadly back much sooner than I had hoped to be.

Big Girl began to slowly but surely lose weight over the past few months. (I picked her up at least once weekly to check.) Throughout her gradual weight loss, Big Girl continued to exhibit her normal behaviors and interact with her flock. To the end she remained a happy carefree chicken. If not for the weight loss I never would have known anything was wrong. But a few days before she died, I saw her slightly sway/stumble while standing beneath my feet, and knew the end of her life was drawing near. I once again tried to find a lab that could test to determine if her DNA showed she was intersex. After no luck I contacted my state lab that performs avian necropsies. The veterinary pathologist verified that "Yes, Big Girl's gonads can be microscopically examined to see if they contain both ova and testicular tissue." So when Big Girl died, I sent her body in for testing.

I will post the full necropsy report if anyone wants to read it. (And when I figure out how to transfer the report from email to here, and delete my personal information contained in the report.) For those who don't wish to read through it, below are the results. FYI I paid for a gross necropsy to determine her cause of death, as well as microscoscopic examination of her reproductive tissues.

Gross Necropsy Examination:
Reproductive system: The oviduct is small and immature. In the area of the ovary are two oblong, tan gonads that appear similiar to testicles.
Gross Necropsy Diagnosis:
Adenocarcinoma with carcinomatosis
Intersex

Comments:
The changes to the gonads and the external characteristics of this chicken support the clinical suspicion of this chicken being intersex.

Histopathy Of Select Tissues:
Cause of death: metatastic carcinoma
Gonad: Ovotestes

Comments: The gross diagnosis of this chicken being an intersex bird is confirmed on histologic examination of the gonads and reproductive tract.

Thank you to everyone who posted or reacted on Big Girl's thread. I am now going to tag all of you to be sure you learn her official gender results, since before we all could only speculate. I apologize if I've missed anybody.
@Mhcanupp @kurby22 @azygous @Iluveggers @LadiesAndJane @EmmaEsme @Jasna Jov @Sammster @Shadrach @TheHerbs3 @Aquira @SueT @Isadora @BirdsBeesTrees @Lacy Duckwing @ChickenLeg @Tervuren @ColtHandorf @CoconutCoffee @Jenessa_096 @aldarita @Cecisflock @JacinLarkwell @Weeg @LaFleche @3KillerBs @sourland @RubelliteRose @ButtonHoarder @Paz @Overo Mare @Chickengirl2671 @Sortacountrychicken @NatJ @HollowOfWisps @6 Beach Chicks @JedJackson @tripletfeb @aart @Bigtom Turkey @Lenny loves chickens

Big Girl was both male and female. She had an oviduct, ovary and testes.
View attachment 3297942
View attachment 3297952

But that combination caused her to be sterile and exhibit no sexual behaviors of either gender, other than a brief period of time when she was two years old and semi-crowed, and also ocassionally when she clucked like a hen. Big Girl was very unique in appearance and had a very gentle nature. I will always miss her presence among her flock.
View attachment 3298034

Wow! Thanks so much for tagging me and sharing this! I’m so very sorry you lost Big Girl far too soon, you were blessed with a special and gentle bird

 

[igorsMistress]

I’m so sorry for your loss, it’s obvious you really cared for Big Girl. I wish I’d known about your thread before, very interesting and informative.

 

[ButtonHoarder]

Hi everyone. I last posted on this thread 10+ months ago. Soon after my last post, I read a Lot about the subject of "intersex", including in birds and mammals. The subject is Very complicated, & gave me a new understanding and empathy for the issues intersex humans contend with. But I decided against sending in Big Girl's feathers for DNA testing at that time, since the lab said they could only determine the most predominate sex, and I couldn't find any labs that could determine if she was Both genders. I decided I would wait until Big Girl passed away before seeking testing. And now I'm sadly back much sooner than I had hoped to be.

Big Girl began to slowly but surely lose weight over the past few months. (I picked her up at least once weekly to check.) Throughout her gradual weight loss, Big Girl continued to exhibit her normal behaviors and interact with her flock. To the end she remained a happy carefree chicken. If not for the weight loss I never would have known anything was wrong. But a few days before she died, I saw her slightly sway/stumble while standing beneath my feet, and knew the end of her life was drawing near. I once again tried to find a lab that could test to determine if her DNA showed she was intersex. After no luck I contacted my state lab that performs avian necropsies. The veterinary pathologist verified that "Yes, Big Girl's gonads can be microscopically examined to see if they contain both ova and testicular tissue." So when Big Girl died, I sent her body in for testing.

I will post the full necropsy report if anyone wants to read it. (And when I figure out how to transfer the report from email to here, and delete my personal information contained in the report.) For those who don't wish to read through it, below are the results. FYI I paid for a gross necropsy to determine her cause of death, as well as microscoscopic examination of her reproductive tissues.

Gross Necropsy Examination:
Reproductive system: The oviduct is small and immature. In the area of the ovary are two oblong, tan gonads that appear similiar to testicles.
Gross Necropsy Diagnosis:
Adenocarcinoma with carcinomatosis
Intersex

Comments:
The changes to the gonads and the external characteristics of this chicken support the clinical suspicion of this chicken being intersex.

Histopathy Of Select Tissues:
Cause of death: metatastic carcinoma
Gonad: Ovotestes

Comments: The gross diagnosis of this chicken being an intersex bird is confirmed on histologic examination of the gonads and reproductive tract.

Thank you to everyone who posted or reacted on Big Girl's thread. I am now going to tag all of you to be sure you learn her official gender results, since before we all could only speculate. I apologize if I've missed anybody.
@Mhcanupp @kurby22 @azygous @Iluveggers @LadiesAndJane @EmmaEsme @Jasna Jov @Sammster @Shadrach @TheHerbs3 @Aquira @SueT @Isadora @BirdsBeesTrees @Lacy Duckwing @ChickenLeg @Tervuren @ColtHandorf @CoconutCoffee @Jenessa_096 @aldarita @Cecisflock @JacinLarkwell @Weeg @LaFleche @3KillerBs @sourland @RubelliteRose @ButtonHoarder @Paz @Overo Mare @Chickengirl2671 @Sortacountrychicken @NatJ @HollowOfWisps @6 Beach Chicks @JedJackson @tripletfeb @aart @Bigtom Turkey @Lenny loves chickens

Big Girl was both male and female. She had an oviduct, ovary and testes.
View attachment 3297942
View attachment 3297952

But that combination caused her to be sterile and exhibit no sexual behaviors of either gender, other than a brief period of time when she was two years old and semi-crowed, and also ocassionally when she clucked like a hen. Big Girl was very unique in appearance and had a very gentle nature. I will always miss her presence among her flock.
View attachment 3298034

Very sorry for your loss ❤
Thanks for tagging me, this was very interesting to me and I’m glad you sent her in for a necropsy.