I just watched someone kiss one of my birds, repeatedly.

To kiss or not to kiss a chicken...it's a personal decision. If you don't want to, that's fine. If you want to, then accept the risk. Bottom line is, unless you live in a bubble, there are germs all around you. Those who fear chicken germs probably should not have chickens. Same goes for other animals.

I don't fear them, The opposite of "I kiss my pets" isn't "I'm scared of animal germs"
And there may be germs all around, but rubbing your mouth on the source of them isn't ever really gonna not increase your risk. *shrug* I don't lick bannisters either.
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But I agree....kiss 'em if you want to, don't if you don't - for whatever reason, either way.
 
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How? E Coli isn't something you catch via a wound..

I have no problem with horses, although even then I'm not kissing mouths.
NEVER will you find me kissing a toad. BIG deep line in the sand there...
You're not immune to the germs, just to the ick factor. The last three are salmonella risks,
Um, yep, it is entirely possible to get an eColi infection from a wound. <sigh> Back in 2001, I had a small lipoma removed from the back of my left hand. No big deal...just 4 stitches to close it and it was done. I thought. The stitches came out a week later and there was still a small spot that hadn't healed completely. We needed to get the manure on the garden so I put Neosporin and a bandaid on the little open spot, then a vinyl glove, then my gardening gloves. That was on May 29th. On May 31 my hand was swelling and hot, with a little drainage from that tiny little hole soon AFTER I finished doing dinner dishes. I went to the local doctor here, who immediately sent me to Billings, Montana to be seen in the ER at St. Vincent's Hospital. They were waiting for me. So on May 30th I was fine, on May 31st I was signing permission for amputation and rushed into surgery.

The cultures came back with both e Coli and C. perfringens toxins. I had gas gangrene. One of the surgeons in the OR that night wanted to remove the hand then and there because gas gangrene spreads so fast. The entire top of my hand was swollen with gas all the way down to the second knuckles in my fingers and if you touched it it sounded crackly, like walking on Rice Krispies. The other surgeon thought it could be saved. He won, which means I won. But it was a long, miserable battle. I was in the hospital for 10 full days. I had 3 debridment surgeries done, 3 different antibiotics alternating 24/7, whirlpool treatments, and they were to the point of discussing trying a hyperbaric chamber. Gradually it started responding to treatment. I had 2 more operations on that hand during the summer. I had a flareup in mid July and I was back in the hospital, again signing permission for amputation if necessary. I finally got my bandages off for the first time the 21st for October.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I know first hand (pun intended) that e Coli is transmissible via an open wound and wanted to correct that impression. I would hate for anyone to go through what I went through. It wasn't all bad, though......hubby bought me a brand new super nice diamond wedding set to replace the one I'd worn for 33 years. It had to be cut off for surgery. He jokes that it cost him $80,000 to save my hand and another 3 grand to decorate it!
 
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the clostridium is responsible for the gas gangrene.
Your experience sounds awful.
I'll amend to say that getting E coli from the type of ecoli likely in a deli, via a wound obtained whilst using detergent and hot water is probably pretty rare. It is predominantly a GI ailment.
 
the clostridium is responsible for the gas gangrene.
Your experience sounds awful.
I'll amend to say that getting E coli from the type of ecoli likely in a deli, via a wound obtained whilst using detergent and hot water is probably pretty rare. It is predominantly a GI ailment.

ALSO to say that if you get it via a wound, you won't be having GI symptoms, you will have a wound that was contaminated with eColi.
 
Um, yep, it is entirely possible to get an eColi infection from a wound. <sigh> Back in 2001, I had a small lipoma removed from the back of my left hand. No big deal...just 4 stitches to close it and it was done. I thought. The stitches came out a week later and there was still a small spot that hadn't healed completely. We needed to get the manure on the garden so I put Neosporin and a bandaid on the little open spot, then a vinyl glove, then my gardening gloves. That was on May 29th. On May 31 my hand was swelling and hot, with a little drainage from that tiny little hole soon AFTER I finished doing dinner dishes. I went to the local doctor here, who immediately sent me to Billings, Montana to be seen in the ER at St. Vincent's Hospital. They were waiting for me. So on May 30th I was fine, on May 31st I was signing permission for amputation and rushed into surgery.

The cultures came back with both e Coli and C. perfringens toxins. I had gas gangrene. One of the surgeons in the OR that night wanted to remove the hand then and there because gas gangrene spreads so fast. The entire top of my hand was swollen with gas all the way down to the second knuckles in my fingers and if you touched it it sounded crackly, like walking on Rice Krispies. The other surgeon thought it could be saved. He won, which means I won. But it was a long, miserable battle. I was in the hospital for 10 full days. I had 3 debridment surgeries done, 3 different antibiotics alternating 24/7, whirlpool treatments, and they were to the point of discussing trying a hyperbaric chamber. Gradually it started responding to treatment. I had 2 more operations on that hand during the summer. I had a flareup in mid July and I was back in the hospital, again signing permission for amputation if necessary. I finally got my bandages off for the first time the 21st for October.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I know first hand (pun intended) that e Coli is transmissible via an open wound and wanted to correct that impression. I would hate for anyone to go through what I went through. It wasn't all bad, though......hubby bought me a brand new super nice diamond wedding set to replace the one I'd worn for 33 years. It had to be cut off for surgery. He jokes that it cost him $80,000 to save my hand and another 3 grand to decorate it!
Blooie, it's always a pleasure when you chime in! I am truly sorry to hear about your ordeal, but praise God you were able to keep your hand! Your positive outlook on life is admirable.
 
Ok, but you were already infected with clostridium (and comorbid with ecoli) from the manure, and before the dishes. It would have been super unlikely to get those infections while doing dishes.
Could be, but we'll never know for sure. Doctor Sukin ( or St. Sukin as we call him around here), said he doubted that as covered and protected as the hand was while I was out in the garden for that little bit, and with the way I never came into any direct contact with the soil or the manure, we could never directly attribute the infection to that one factor with any degree of certainty. It didn't get hot, swell, and start draining until after I had taken my hand out of the dishwater. Dishwater had actually seeped through that opening into the space between my skin and the underlying tissue. To get an idea,pinch and lift the skin of the top of the hand. See how it comes up off the surface and forms a little pocket? There was water in there. The infectious disease specialist he called in concurred. He said he'd seen it before in folks who had an open sore and came into contact with mopping water, which seems much more likely to be contaminated than dishwater to me, but who knows? Could be coincidence. So while it's entirely possible that you are absolutely right, this cookie has learned first hand the power of the germ, regardless of what it's called and where it came from, and that the unusual can always happen.
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Could be, but we'll never know for sure. Doctor Sukin ( or St. Sukin as we call him around here), said he doubted that as covered and protected as the hand was while I was out in the garden for that little bit, and with the way I never came into any direct contact with the soil or the manure, we could never directly attribute the infection to that one factor with any degree of certainty. It didn't get hot, swell, and start draining until after I had taken my hand out of the dishwater. Dishwater had actually seeped through that opening into the space between my skin and the underlying tissue. To get an idea,pinch and lift the skin of the top of the hand. See how it comes up off the surface and forms a little pocket? There was water in there. The infectious disease specialist he called in concurred. He said he'd seen it before in folks who had an open sore and came into contact with mopping water, which seems much more likely to be contaminated than dishwater to me, but who knows? Could be coincidence. So while it's entirely possible that you are absolutely right, this cookie has learned first hand the power of the germ, regardless of what it's called and where it came from, and that the unusual can always happen.
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There ya go. I suppose it's possible to get clostridium nearly anywhere, and it's anaerobic, so you had the perfect set up for it. (I would completely agree that mopping water would seem to be a more likely source)
And yes, weird things happen. Rarely.
 
Blooie, it's always a pleasure when you chime in! I am truly sorry to hear about your ordeal, but praise God you were able to keep your hand! Your positive outlook on life is admirable.
Somehow I missed this post. Thank you for your kind words. I figure if stuff like this is the worst life can throw at me, I'm good. I've suffered no ill effects from it all, except for the fact that now I am very prone to infections and heal very slowly. And sometimes when I'm driving I'm temporarily blinded by the bling on my left ring finger when the sun hits it!
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To kiss or not to kiss a chicken...it's a personal decision. If you don't want to, that's fine. If you want to, then accept the risk. Bottom line is, unless you live in a bubble, there are germs all around you. Those who fear chicken germs probably should not have chickens. Same goes for other animals.


I don't fear them, The opposite of "I kiss my pets" isn't "I'm scared of animal germs"
And there may be germs all around, but rubbing your mouth on the source of them isn't ever really gonna not increase your risk. *shrug* I don't lick bannisters either.
big_smile.png

But I agree....kiss 'em if you want to, don't if you don't - for whatever reason, either way.
My point was certainly not to throw caution to the wind concerning germs. Like you, I do not advocate bannister licking, chicken licking, etc.
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I cannot speak for other chicken keepers, but here is the kind of scenario we encounter at our home: We come inside after gathering eggs, handling chickens, cleaning the coop, etc. "Chicken poop" shoes come off at the door, but door knobs, light switches, and other fixtures get touched with "chicken germ" hands. Every time someone enters or exits the house, those same fixtures get touched and those same germs end up right back where they came from. We strive to keep our hands washed and our home sanitary, but I've come to terms with the fact that it will never be sterile. Unfortunately, though we ALWAYS wash hands when we come back inside, I cannot guarantee that we ALWAYS clean those fixtures before someone touches them. And I cannot guarantee that we NEVER touch our eyes, noses, and mouths after touching those fixtures.

That is precisely why I say that people who fear chicken germs probably should not have chickens. Try as they may to avoid it, people who have them are eventually going to be exposed to their germs one way or another, like it or not. People who find that reality distressing will probably be more stressed than rewarded by the chicken keeping experience.
 

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