I just watched someone kiss one of my birds, repeatedly.

[CanaDawn]

Oh,my! I certainly hope I didn't offend you! I didn't intend to do that at all, just to say that a wound can indeed become contaminated with e Coli. Please accept my apologies for coming across too strongly!

No, clearly you did actually have e coli in a wound, and I don't for a moment mind that you told your story. As I say, I work with e coli to a limited degree, and we always instruct students to wash with soap and water, and the strain we use is not pathogenic, but I may revise my instructions to include more caution with open wounds (although that's standard lab safety protocol, they are students and it bears repeating!) The gas gangrene is the clostridium at work, and I've heard that crackling sound from a wound on an animal - it's not a good symptom at all because it does indicate clostridial infection. I'm sure your experience was terrifying and I can't imagine the stress of being so close to losing a hand and being so ill and having to make such huge decisions.

I just don't do well on forums and usually avoid them. I apparently am not good at understanding how my written "tone" comes across and generally end up in the doghouse.

 

[Alexandra33]

ok, I have to speak to a few of the statements in this:
- You do in fact get digestive symptoms with new birds. We won't quibble about whether or not that means you were sick. Getting new birds means having to get used to new germs. And you do. Because you're not vulnerable to worse symptoms.
- I do NOT consider those animals to be "full of zoonotic diseases". Rather, I think that being aware of what diseases may be transmissible by various species is good policy. It means a person can make sensible decisions about animal care practices if necessary. Toxoplasmosis is an issue for pregnant women, so it's wise to avoid cat crap then, even if the risk is fairly small. Etc. I'm not about to say "Pets are full of diseases you can catch" but there are a few things it's good to be aware of.
- Toads do not produce warts. You're right, that is indeed strictly an old wives' tale with no factual basis. I won't be kissing them because I am phobic, despite my best efforts to overcome what I fully am aware is not a real issue with handling toads, and which has nothing to do with fearing warts. Frogs are fine (but also don't get kissed).
- My pets are well-loved and they know it, even without kisses.

I agree that you can still love your animals without kisses, and that there are definitely health concerns to be conscious of. Never have I intended to make you feel as though you are wrong; it's the last thing I want to do.

If I have given you the impression that I'm opposing everything you say, I'm very sorry. The last thing I want to do is upset you.

-Alexandra33

 

[CanaDawn]

I agree that you can still love your animals without kisses, and that there are definitely health concerns to be conscious of. Never have I intended to make you feel as though you are wrong; it's the last thing I want to do.

If I have given you the impression that I'm opposing everything you say, I'm very sorry. The last thing I want to do is upset you.

-Alexandra33

Thank you. Group hug, no kisses and awayyyy we go!

 

[Alexandra33]

 

[Blooie]

I just don't do well on forums and usually avoid them. I apparently am not good at understanding how my written "tone" comes across and generally end up in the doghouse.

I think you do just fine and I'm very glad to "meet" you!!

 

[CanaDawn]

I think you do just fine and I'm very glad to "meet" you!!

Thanks. I try very very hard to phrase things as best I can. Sometimes that makes it worse!

 

[TBirdsTheWord33]

well, rest assured you can absolutely NEVER get your home sterile. I'd venture so far as to say no one can, under normal living conditions. "Sterile" has ended up being a meaningless word in day to day use, since people so often use it when they actually mean "sanitary"

I think being aware of the zoonoses possibilities of your pets is just good animal husbandry and good sense. I think freaking out about "germs" is too often fear-based vs information-based and it's hard to adjust people's settings on that (I think it's probably instilled pretty deeply in early childhood as to whether or not "dirt" is ok in moderation)

I still don't kiss my chickens. Why should I? They don't even kiss each other.

Yes, keeping a "sanitary" home is the best I can hope for under the circumstances. After all, I DO have a husband, kids, various indoor pets, and a yard full of chickens and ducks.

Honestly, people germs terrify me. There you have it. Raccoons and bats also terrify me because of the zoonotic diseases they sometimes carry. I also avoid handling stray cats and dogs for the same reason. Being pregnant, I DON'T change litter boxes, clean the coop, or kiss the chickens. I agree that people must always be informed and weigh the risks.

Speaking of dirt, I'm rusty on this, but it crosses my mind that dirt contains substances that are actually GOOD for the immune system. I THINK they're called HSOs (Homeostatic Soil Organisms)??? My great-grandmother who lived past 100 used to say, "We all have to eat a peck of dirt in our lifetime." Perhaps she was onto something...

I just don't do well on forums and usually avoid them. I apparently am not good at understanding how my written "tone" comes across and generally end up in the doghouse.

I never thought your posts were mean or rude. We are all entitled to respectfully state our differing opinions, and that includes you. Have a blessed day!

 

[CanaDawn]

Yes, keeping a "sanitary" home is the best I can hope for under the circumstances. After all, I DO have a husband, kids, various indoor pets, and a yard full of chickens and ducks.

Honestly, people germs terrify me. There you have it. Raccoons and bats also terrify me because of the zoonotic diseases they sometimes carry. I also avoid handling stray cats and dogs for the same reason. Being pregnant, I DON'T change litter boxes, clean the coop, or kiss the chickens. I agree that people must always be informed and weigh the risks.

Heck, most days I feel like I'm struggling with sanitary! Certainly with "uncluttered".....(I'm a Visual Filer...yeah..that's it...)

Don't worry about the posts, it's mostly just me worrying that I have a history of never quite seeming to get it right. I didn't feel upset, just sort of a sinking "uh oh" that I wasn't making my points without causing ruffled feathers! Trust me, if there's two ways to take it, and it's not clear, I probably mean the good way. It's usually crystal clear if I don't....

Quote: I would have to google so I won't pretend to know if that's the right name or not, but yes, there are very good things in soil. (As our now retired botanist used to say "dirt is what you find in your vacuum, but soil is what you find outside" or words to that effect.

)

There's also an English researcher who some years ago felt that being too clean has been of great harm to children, and who experimented with "inoculating" kids with soil bacterium, I think. There's ALSO work underway on the mood elevating effects of being in contact with soil bacteria (not like "whoo hoo, I hear colours!" but as in depression-lifting.) Right now, our best hope for a new class of antibiotics is actually soil bacteria that were previously unworkable because it was nearly impossible to culture in the lab...so a clever scientist developed (just recently) a way to culture them in situ in the soil. There's a lot that is being newly discovered about gut bacteria and how it influences the brain in very big ways (And how early experiences, right down to birth, can have enormous effects on the gut colonisation, as we are normally sterile at birth, and pick up microbiology on our way out, and in our early hours/days/years)

(ok, that's probably enough rhapsodising about dirt....)

 

[vintagegem]

I completely agree, TBirdsTheWords33. It couldn't have been better said.
X2 I so agree!
-Alexandra33

 

[CanaDawn]

Here is a link to a forum for in-depth discussions on zoonosis. You clearly have great knowledge to offer. https://www.backyardchickens.com/newsearch?search=zoonotic+diseases

I must not be doing this right, as this just takes me to a search for the words "zoonotic" and "diseases" and not to a forum?