I may be growing my own food for the chickens after all, due to genetic editing

[saysfaa]

Japanese Beetle (Popillia japonica)
This study says white grubs from several species, including Japanese Beetle were found to have crude fat of 29.67% plus/minus 1.34% and protein content of 12.75 plus/minus 3.65%.

So even if the protein is high in MET, it is deficient overall.

This is interesting,
"The 20 DNA-coded protein amino acids play central roles in the metabolism of most organisms. As well as being the building blocks for proteins they play essential roles in a diverse range of metabolic pathways. There are estimated to be around 1000 molecules in nature, which share the same basic structure as these organic amino acids... Many 'non-protein' amino acids {NPAAs} are plant secondary metabolites.
... [some] can be mistakenly used in protein synthesis, interfere in biochemical pathways, over-stimulate receptors or chelate metal ions. Most often this results in some level of toxicity to the target organism and can confer some advantage to the plant...
The effects of NPAAs on human health are not well understood. Consumption of a number of plants that contain NPAAs has been shown to have acutely toxic effects in humans. The key questions that remain unanswered are: to what extent can NAPPs enter the food chain and what are the effects of a chronic low-level exposure to toxic plant NPAAs?..."

when was this written? It cites 2015, Oh, 2017.

Not much is actually new but they cover a lot of pieces and their connections in a way relatively easy to understand. They never mention or directly refer to GMO but I can see relevance. Also, relevance to choosing feeds. If nothing else, I want to be able to find this again for a friend with a lot of MS symptoms (one of the examples).

Book: Toxinology, Plant Toxins
Toxic Non-protein Amino Acids
Words 7307
Kenneth J. Rodgers, Kate Samardzic and Brendan J. Main
The Neurotoxin Research Group
School of Life Sciences
The University of Technology Sydney
Sydney NSW

Sorry, I don't have a link. I spent time on this that I don't have just now, anyway. I found it in a Google Scholar search for "Popillia japonica nutrient profile protein amino acids" on page 3 somewhere.

I'm driving most of the next two days. So, sorry for the stream of consciousness and incompleteness.

 

[saysfaa]

Link
This is the common overview of the issues involved in finding a reasonable non-synthetic MET source for chicken feed.

Plus, much more extensive info than usual on possible options including insects and worms.

It includes quite a bit on how to raise each, some of the issues involved, and the best nutrient profiles I've yet found for the insects most commonly raised for feeding chickens.

Unfortunately, it doesn't include Japanese beetles.

I don't like the hight fat cost for the amount of MET available. And dh doesn't like insects in or around the house.

House flies are extreme outliers for each of: low fat, high protein, and high percentage of protein. As adults, though, vs larva for the others. I wish they gave both adult and larva for all of them.

I really don't want to raise (or even just attract) house flies (myself, not just dh). But if they are outlier enough to not need very many.... maybe.... far away from the house.

It might work to get a big population of larva, then use screen (maybe mosquito netting) to capture the adults. Edit to add: yuck.

Edit to add the picture I missed - the one with how much fat each has

 

[saysfaa]

I think there is a plant answer. Like brazil nuts but a plant that grows in this climate. It seems clear that it isn't commonly used as food or feed. Unfortunately, that makes it far less likely its nutrient profile has been published.

I wish I could just raise herbivores to feed the omnivores. I would very much like herds of cattle and goats, and a flock of sheep. Unfortunately, even rabbits aren't an option.

So, venison. It is illegal to buy or sell it. Letting various hunters know how much I like it hasn't resulted in being given any. So if it did happen, I probably (lol, certainly) won't get enough to be willing to share it with chickens. I'm not willing to ask directly, for myself (under these economic conditions, anyway), so certainly not for chickens. That leaves learning to shoot - not high on my list of things I want to do.

 

[saysfaa]

I'm revising my short term goal. I didn't put it in this thread but it has been to figure it out enough to attempt implementing it next winter. That gave eight or nine months to research and a growing season to implement.

New short term goal is to harvest enough of each the most promising pieces to shorten the learning curve when I do find the rest of the pieces.

I'll still look for the rest of the pieces but not focus on it in the time I have to spend on this project.

 

[BDutch]

I think there is a plant answer. Like brazil nuts but a plant that grows in this climate. It seems clear that it isn't commonly used as food or feed. Unfortunately, that makes it far less likely its nutrient profile has been published.

I wish I could just raise herbivores to feed the omnivores. I would very much like herds of cattle and goats, and a flock of sheep. Unfortunately, even rabbits aren't an option.

So, venison. It is illegal to buy or sell it. Letting various hunters know how much I like it hasn't resulted in being given any. So if it did happen, I probably (lol, certainly) won't get enough to be willing to share it with chickens. I'm not willing to ask directly, for myself (under these economic conditions, anyway), so certainly not for chickens. That leaves learning to shoot - not high on my list of things I want to do.

I know that BYC people grow their own mealworms to save money. You only have to buy a handful living mealwoms to start. Shouldn’t be hard to find a good method.

 

[saysfaa]

I know that BYC people grow their own mealworms to save money. You only have to buy a handful living mealwoms to start. Shouldn’t be hard to find a good method.

Too much fat. Well, I assumed they have far too much fat to feed enough of them to get the amount of MET. I didn't do the math. It has been a long, hard day so I'm not trying to do the math now. Maybe tomorrow.

And I tried raising them. I got larva which pupated, and then what seemed to be healthy, long lived beetles but no second generation that I could identify. After many months, I decided not to distress DH any further. He tolerated them but really hated having them, even with explanations (can't fly, etc).

I still don't know what went wrong. I started with fresh larva from the pet store. The person working there and the label said they weren't treated.

 

[saysfaa]

Stashing this info here so I can find it later..

https://www.iiste.org/Journals/index.php/JBAH/article/viewFile/5358/5337

It is a 1995 paper on the methods of formulating rations, how to use some of them, and their pros and cons

Pearson square method
simultaneous equation method
Two by two matrix method
Trial and error method
Imami method
Linear progression method
Neuro- fuzzy

 

[BDutch]

I think there is a plant answer. Like brazil nuts but a plant that grows in this climate. It seems clear that it isn't commonly used as food or feed. Unfortunately, that makes it far less likely its nutrient profile has been published.

I wish I could just raise herbivores to feed the omnivores. I would very much like herds of cattle and goats, and a flock of sheep. Unfortunately, even rabbits aren't an option.

So, venison. It is illegal to buy or sell it. Letting various hunters know how much I like it hasn't resulted in being given any. So if it did happen, I probably (lol, certainly) won't get enough to be willing to share it with chickens. I'm not willing to ask directly, for myself (under these economic conditions, anyway), so certainly not for chickens. That leaves learning to shoot - not high on my list of things I want to do.

I dont understand why anyone would want to kil deer to feed chickens. Chickens are omnivorous, and can do well without animal (mammal) flesh. Some insects are a welcome extra. But these are not added in most layer or chick feed. In my country mammal / poultry originated ingredients are not allowed in chicken feed.

The fat in mealworms is no problem if the chickens font eat large quantities. I give it a little during winter. In the summer the chickens should try to catch their own bugs.

The dried mealworms for chickens/birds that are sold here are from the Tenebrio Molitor, the yellow mealworm beetle. We don’t have soldier worms here in the animal shop.

 

[saysfaa]

I dont understand why anyone would want to kil deer to feed chickens. ..

Deer overpopulation. It is quite a severe problem.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Not to mention, venison is tasty and deer are commonly harvested for sport in the US. My chickens love deer carcasses. Last buck I cleaned on the farm, the chickens ate the entire bucket of guts.

I have been wondering whether there is such a thing as a grinder that turns all animal materials into mush. I could make use of lots of otherwise useable parts that way.