I need help. My dog just killed a cockrel. :(

[bobbi-j]

I don't believe that it's a matter of get rid of the dog or the chickens. Some dogs can be trained. It's easier if you can start when they're pups, but it doesn't always work out that way. It will take time, patience and consistency. Your other option is to reinforce your fence, get a kennel, or tie your dogs out so they don't have access to the chickens. Build a safe, secure run for your chickens. Let the dogs out while the chickens are in the run, put the dogs up and let the chickens out. It's not the "taste of blood" that keeps the dogs going after chickens. It's lack of training, and the temptation of another feathery, squawking, flapping squeaky toy. You need to train that out of the dog, or keep them separated. I'm glad your neighbor is being understanding. They may not be, though, if it continues.

 

[roverdew]

Thanks guys.

I did reinforce the gate in my backyard, no way they can get out now in that spot. We also did a bit of disciplining to the dog. She seems a little remorseful, however I can tell she just wants to squeeze the life out of another one.
I sat up late last night trying to figure out what to do. I think my best bet, since I'm not in a position to spend the time needed to get this dog acclimated, is to find a way to tie them up or separate them from the chickens. I'm going to look into dog runs and put one up in another part of the yard.
I'm bummed that I didn't think to build the coop outside of the backyard. I don't think I could move it as it is heavy and large.

So the plan is:
-fix the gate (done)
-put some pavers down around the run to ensure no digging under (wire is already present)
-research and install an easy to use run for the dogs when free ranging the chickens
-Never let the chickens and dogs out alone. Ever.

As for my neighbor... I wish I had a way to make it up to them.

 

[Suzie]

I am so heartened to read of your latest post... your neighbour will appreciate your efforts in securing your property... your heartfelt sincerity is to be applauded - not criticised by the theory that dogs that have kiilled will always do so.... and should be euthanased!

It is good to read that true animal lovers still exist.... also for those sceptics.... animals CAN co-exist with each other... it is a matter of responsibility and acceptance of the responsibility that the poster has displayed. Therefore but for the grace of God,, go you and I!

Suzie

 

[bobbi-j]

Sounds like a good plan. As for the neighbor - you have 9 chickens and he got 5? Could you replace his lost one with one of yours? Just a thought.

 

[aart]

....... As for the neighbor - you have 9 chickens and he got 5? Could you replace his lost one with one of yours? Just a thought.

Yep, sounds like a no-brainer decision, surprised it wasn't done immediately.

 

[peteyfoozer]

Once a dog gets the taste for blood, it's either get rid of the dog or the chickens..

This is not true. There are dogs with high prey drive that are more likely to kill and there are dogs who enjoy chasing and playing. But they CAN be taught not to molest the birds. Chicks are merely squeaky toys to a majority of canines. Even my LGD"s killed a few before they reached maturity and learned that it was unacceptable behavior. They now both guard free range flocks of both meat and laying chickens. It will take work on your part, and vigilance. I recommend getting a citronella spray or electric remote collar (dogs hate citronella, but it doesn't hurt) to make corrections from a distance. Keep them separated except when you can supervise and correct on leash, then eventually with the collar. Dogs like having fun. Chicks are fun. All my dogs eat raw chicken and none of them kill on their own.

 

[blucoondawg]

The training collar would be my best advice, I haven't used the spray ones but I have used the shock type and they work effectively on my dog she is a bird hunting breed with a very strong prey drive. It only took 1 shock and since then I correct her with the tone button, she knows if she doesn't mind the next thing after the tone is a zap. The problem is she knows she can get away with it if she isn't wearing the collar so she still needs to be watched but it is a very good start to training that behavior out of them.

 

[cafarmgirl]

Thanks guys.

I did reinforce the gate in my backyard, no way they can get out now in that spot. We also did a bit of disciplining to the dog. She seems a little remorseful, however I can tell she just wants to squeeze the life out of another one.
I sat up late last night trying to figure out what to do. I think my best bet, since I'm not in a position to spend the time needed to get this dog acclimated, is to find a way to tie them up or separate them from the chickens. I'm going to look into dog runs and put one up in another part of the yard.
I'm bummed that I didn't think to build the coop outside of the backyard. I don't think I could move it as it is heavy and large.

So the plan is:
-fix the gate (done)
-put some pavers down around the run to ensure no digging under (wire is already present)
-research and install an easy to use run for the dogs when free ranging the chickens
-Never let the chickens and dogs out alone. Ever.

As for my neighbor... I wish I had a way to make it up to them.

I think your plan to contain the dogs and keep dogs and chickens separate is a very good one. Keep working on the dog but be prepared for training to have to be an ongoing, long time thing. And that particular dog may never be trustworthy. I personally prefer never to trust any dog that's killed poultry previously. I'll work with them but I don't ever trust them. It's just not worth it to me to loose birds I've spent a lot of time and money raising.

One thing that's always worked really well for me in keeping dogs away from pens when I'm gone is having a hot wire around the outside of my coop/run about 6 or 8 inches off the ground. Each of my dogs as well as many of my neighbors dogs, and nightime predators as well, have gotten zapped by that hot wire. They now stay far away. In fact I have never seen any of the neighbor dogs return to my property to check out chickens again.

Best of luck, I think your on the right track.

 

[gg706]

Chikenbutwut trains dogs and helped me with my dog digging holes EVERYWHERE! Not the same thing but I am sure she can help in some way. I will direct her to your thread. I used a shock collar and vigilance and it worked wonders!

 

[Chikenbutwut]

The training collar would be my best advice, I haven't used the spray ones but I have used the shock type and they work effectively on my dog she is a bird hunting breed with a very strong prey drive. It only took 1 shock and since then I correct her with the tone button, she knows if she doesn't mind the next thing after the tone is a zap. The problem is she knows she can get away with it if she isn't wearing the collar so she still needs to be watched but it is a very good start to training that behavior out of them.

Good advice!

Chikenbutwut trains dogs and helped me with my dog digging holes EVERYWHERE! Not the same thing but I am sure she can help in some way. I will direct her to your thread. I used a shock collar and vigilance and it worked wonders!

Thank you so much. So glad things are working out with your girl.

For one, being that this is a Corgi mix, Corgi's herd cattle by nipping at their heels. I don't know how this started out...if the instinct to herd was strong and the dog broke out and tried herding the chicks and nipped at one because it wouldn't fall into line like the dog wanted it to, and in nipping it, the dog accidentally killed it. Or if it's just a matter of the dog seeking the chicks out due to having a strong prey drive. It's not always true, however, that once a dog gets a taste for blood, it's get rid of the dog or the chickens. With the proper training, it doesn't always have to end up that way. As was stated, many dogs are fed raw chicken as part of raw diets and behave around chickens just fine. The bit about a dog tasting blood is an old wive's tale that has carried on throughout the yrs. Now it is true that it can be hard to break dogs with a high prey drive from killing chickens, which is why that tale may have carried throughout the yrs. as fact though.

As was mentioned, it would probably be a good idea to get a training collar. Now I realize that shock collars are thought of as bad, but when use properly, they're no different than any other training device. Yes, it causes discomfort, but we're not talking about zapping the crap out of your dog here. You want one of the collars similar to what hunters use with their dogs. They have a remote, emit a tone before the correction, and have adjustable amounts of correction.

Being a Corgi mix, depending on the thickness of fur, you may have to use the longer prongs (the collars come with short and long prongs). The collar should be snug, but not too tight. The prongs should sit in the middle of your dog's throat. Get the collar adjusted the way you need it. Start off inside the house. Start the corrections on the lowest setting. You want to increase the corrections until you get a reaction out of the dog. It may be the dog looking around like "What was that?," a twitching of an ear, the dog getting up with a confused look, etc. At that point you want to use the correction again at that setting. Call your dog to you and give it a command you know it will respond to and give it a treat and a pet.

Get the dog set up outside. You want the dog on a collar with a light, but strong lead. You don't want a very short lead...you want just enough to wear the dog will forget it's on. The dog should already have the training collar on. Let your dog near the chickens, but be mindful of how far the leash goes. You don't want your dog to be able to reach the chickens. Bring with you very tasty treats that your dog really likes. Watch your dog, but don't let the dog know you're doing it. Perhaps watch her at out the corner of your eye. Try not to tense yourself up or the dog will sense it. Act like you're not concerned. See how your dog reacts. If the dog charges the fencing the chicks are behind, give her a corrective zap. If she walks away from the chickens and to you, give her a treat and praise her. If the dog intently stares at the chicks, do the same. The dog's ears will usually be perked quite far forward and the tail may wag slowly while they're doing the intent staring. If a chick moves, you'll see the dog's muscle's twitch, or she may move in the direction the chick she's zoning in on is. You want her to associate acting aggressively toward the chickens with something unpleasant and ignoring the chickens with something positive.

After working with that for a while, you'll next want to set your dog up. Put her in the yard, tied up, next to the chick run and you go hide. Make it to where the the leash (rope, whatever) is enough to get close to the chickens, but not reach them, as you don't want to give her the satisfaction of getting them really riled up or it'll kick her prey drive in harder. If she charges the run, give her a correction with the collar.

Remember at all times not to not let your dog associate the corrections with you. You will want to stay silent. You want your dog to think that if she makes any aggressive move toward the chicks, that this zap comes out of nowhere and gets her. This way she associates acting aggressively toward the chicks with something unpleasant.

And keep in mind too, that disciplining the dog after the fact does nothing, the dog must be caught and corrected in the act...this is why training collars can work so effectively. What you said about her being remorseful is not true. She's not remorseful over what she did, as their minds don't work like that, she's only remorseful because she was punished.

You also may need to raise the intensity of the corrections to break your dog out of their state of mind. The more intent the dog is, the more the correction has to be. You'll figure out where it should be to get her to stop.

As was stated, this is going to take time, repetition, work and patience. Even after all of this, if the dog's prey drive is very strong, it may make the dog think twice, but may not be 100%. To keep from setting your dog up for failure, like you said, it may be best to have an area the dogs could be put (like a kennel) while the chickens are out. To keep your dog from getting to your or your neighbor's birds, you may need to set up something to prevent digging. Some dogs, depending on how determined they are, may then resort to climbing if they're out in the yard, so it may be a good idea to put your dog on a good strong collar (Stillwater Kennel Supply makes really strong collars for great prices...I have 8 of them in different kinds and I have pit bulls, which are strong pullers, and these collars are still just as good as the day I got them, which was many yrs. ago... www.stillwaterkennelsupply.com), and a strong chain system. Just be very careful never to put a chained up dog next to a fence because they can climb the fence and choke to death. If your dog tries to climb her kennel, you'll need to put something over the top to prevent her from getting out and over.

Another thing I would do is I would keep the dog next to your chicken run either in a kennel or on a chain system. This way the dog grows accustomed to chickens flapping, squawking, running, etc. Once the newness wears off, the dog may become disinterested.

Another thing too...the alpha dog cannot be solely blamed for this, as your other dog came along too. More than one dog constitutes a pack and many develop that pack mentality. Granted, the subordinate dog may have taken the cues of the alpha dog, but pack mentality can cause dogs to get into a lot of trouble. I wouldn't trust your subordinate dog completely either though.

Hopefully you'll be able to get to where you'll only have to use the corrective tone with her, with maybe some corrections in between as reminders, and eventually not have to use the collar at all anymore, but still, I'd always stay on your toes to be sure no incidents happen.

Okay, I think I explained this well enough and didn't leave anything out. I hope this helps. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me, as I know it can be confusing. Other people may come a long with more training advice too. Different people have different methods of training and what works for one trainer, may not work with another.