I need some advice before I buy a coop.

[humblehillsfarm]

Hmm, I see. My question is, why do chickens need that much space in a coop if they'll be using it only when sleeping? Let's say we close the door only at night when they are already sleeping and open at dawn, would that make any difference? In my experience chickens sleep on the perch next to each other like this:

View attachment 2679616
So if I add an extra 1 meter perch, along with the ones inside the house, it would be enough space in my mind, but then again, the last time I had any chickens was 15 years ago, haha.

As for the openness of the coop, some summer nights can be really hot. During colder winters it's easy to cover those windows so the chickens feel more tucked in and warmer.

It would be far easier to start with the recommended amount of chickens and add more if you feel the system is working for you, but it would be very irresponsible to start with a lot of chickens and realize you were wrong.

If you are rigorous about letting them out at the crack of dawn, go for it. Right now I am outside at 5:45 AM letting my birds out, and they have 8.2 sq feet of space per bird. However with my old coop, I wound up with 20 birds in my coop made for 12 (I had 15 for the longest time in it) and they were sandwiched onto the roost bars, and no more than 4-5 birds could be on the floor where the food and water was before becoming overcrowded. I removed the water which helped, but food attracts unwanted critters so for me it's safer to leave food in the coop. Then I had to start leaving for work at 4am when covid started and "early hours" became a thing *eye roll*. So I had to rely on other people to let them out.

First day I ever asked my boyfriend to let my chickens out, he didn't. They were locked in for 20 hours with no water. I was lucky the weather was mild, but it was still in the 90s in the coop. I was lucky they didn't die. The reality is unless you can guarantee you'll have a perfect and predictable lifestyle or a guaranteed predator proof run, then you have to assume there will be times they will be left in the coop for a couple hours longer than they should be. As it is now, that run is not predator proof. And if you aren't planning on moving the coop, the chooks will soon dig holes deep enough that they can get under the run themselves.

I read on here a guy slept through his alarm until 12 pm and every single one of his birds died from a heat stroke. If my boyfriend had left my chooks locked up in the middle of summer, their fate would have been the same.

While I have great ventilation and poop management, wintertime ventilation can become a problem with over crowding as well.

There's a reason why floor space for birds has a recommended amount.

Edited to add: The conditions you would be subjecting your birds to if you overcrowd in that coop will be far worse than even the standards for commercial poultry keeping, and that is abysmal. Truly.

 

[cherrynberry]

I've offered advice. I've offered explanation. You seem intent on doing what you want to do, regardless. Still, I'll make one last effort.

First, when the weather is fine, your birds may want to sleep outside in the run. Then you don't need any house space at all. The reason the house exists is for when the weather is NOT fine, and they may be cooped up there for days. Space is a social lubricant, too many birds in too small a space leads to stress and behavioral problems - feather pulling, aggressive fighting for dominance, etc

Second, Portugal doesn't often get "really hot". Lisbon, for instance has a high of around 83F in July, on average. Talk to me about really hot when its over 100F (38C) for 60, 80 days out of 100, not the 5 or 7 whioch made world news back in 2018. You have brief heat waves, when the birds will absolutely not want to sleep in the house, yes, and should not be forced into it.

Neither does Portugal get "really cold". Blocking their ventilation to protect them from lows in the 35F (1C) range is a recipe for disaster. You need ventilation, about 1 sq ft per bird, to help move moist, ammonia laden air out to avoid respiratory illnesses and the like. Birds are naturally equipped with down blankets. If they are dry and not drafty, a fully feather bird can easily take temps of -20F or lower (-30C) - they aren't cold sensitive the way we humans are, and should not be treated like humans with our much more narrow comfort zone.

Based on my readings, Portugal gets a LOT of rain compared to many places, mostly in winter - similar to my own 59" a year. Ensuring birds have a place to get away from cool, windy rain - a source of potential frost bite - is the reason you want a hen house with adequate space.

But you do you - I'm stepping off.

Agree with this...
1.) Chicken poop piles up quickly in a small coop (it can burn the chickens skin, cause ammonia)
2.) When chickens get bored, they bully each other, they are cannibals.
3.) Disease spreads a lot faster in a small amount of space
4.) Bad ventilation can cause respitory disease (causes sneezing)
5.) Bad ventilation can cause moisture build up...
6.) I know many people on BYC that have learned this the hard way. There are rules for a reason...

Basically what @U_Stormcrow said

 

[cherrynberry]

Agree with this...
1.) Chicken poop piles up quickly in a small coop (it can burn the chickens skin, cause ammonia)
2.) When chickens get bored, they bully each other, they are cannibals.
3.) Disease spreads a lot faster in a small amount of space
4.) Bad ventilation can cause respitory disease (causes sneezing)
5.) Bad ventilation can cause moisture build up...
6.) I know many people on BYC that have learned this the hard way. There are rules for a reason...

Basically what @U_Stormcrow said

Another thing I want to add is that in a coop and run that small, too many chickens will start to find other things to do and may start to eat eggs as well...


Edit: keep in mind that the coop you are planning to get has roosts that are 1/2-1 inch off the ground of the coop, so poop builds up fast. Chickens also poop the most at night. Quail looks like a better option as of now...in my opinion

 

[pinkjellybeans]

I've offered advice. I've offered explanation. You seem intent on doing what you want to do, regardless. Still, I'll make one last effort.

First, when the weather is fine, your birds may want to sleep outside in the run. Then you don't need any house space at all. The reason the house exists is for when the weather is NOT fine, and they may be cooped up there for days. Space is a social lubricant, too many birds in too small a space leads to stress and behavioral problems - feather pulling, aggressive fighting for dominance, etc

Second, Portugal doesn't often get "really hot". Lisbon, for instance has a high of around 83F in July, on average. Talk to me about really hot when its over 100F (38C) for 60, 80 days out of 100, not the 5 or 7 whioch made world news back in 2018. You have brief heat waves, when the birds will absolutely not want to sleep in the house, yes, and should not be forced into it.

Neither does Portugal get "really cold". Blocking their ventilation to protect them from lows in the 35F (1C) range is a recipe for disaster. You need ventilation, about 1 sq ft per bird, to help move moist, ammonia laden air out to avoid respiratory illnesses and the like. Birds are naturally equipped with down blankets. If they are dry and not drafty, a fully feather bird can easily take temps of -20F or lower (-30C) - they aren't cold sensitive the way we humans are, and should not be treated like humans with our much more narrow comfort zone.

Based on my readings, Portugal gets a LOT of rain compared to many places, mostly in winter - similar to my own 59" a year. Ensuring birds have a place to get away from cool, windy rain - a source of potential frost bite - is the reason you want a hen house with adequate space.

But you do you - I'm stepping off.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. We had chickens growing up and they were just lose like wild animals and would do whatever they wanted. I'm trying to do things right this time around so I'm trying to understand everything. I'm just asking questions, if I was intent on doing thigns how I wanted I wouldn't be here asking.

Portugal gets heat waves all the time that can reach 40º. Not mention the heat in Portugal is humid, which is the worst kind of heat and feels even worse. There are nights that we can't even sleep outside on the grass. When I mentioned I could cover SOME parts of the coop during cold nights, it was mostly because you said the coop was really open and didn't offer any shelter, so again, I'm just confused, I'm sorry. English is not my mother language too, so some phrasing could sound offensive when I don't mean it to be that way.

Anyway thanks for your advice, I'll just leave now.

 

[cherrynberry]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. We had chickens growing up and they were just lose and would do whatever they wanted. I'm trying to do things right this around so I'm trying to understand everything. I'm just asking questions, if I was intent on doing thigns how I wanted I wouldn't be here asking.

Portugal gets heat waves all the time that can reach 40º. Not mention the heat in Portugal is humid, which is the worst kind of heat and feels even worse. There are nights that we can't even sleep outside on the grass. When I mentioned I could cover SOME parts of the coop during cold nights, it was mostly because you said the coop was really open and didn't offer any shelter, so again, I'm just confused, I'm sorry. English is not my mother language too, so some phrasing could sound offensive when I don't mean it to be that way.

Anyway thanks for your advice, I'll just leave now.

I really recommend getting quail...maybe atleast look into it?

 

[Auntiejessi3]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. We had chickens growing up and they were just lose and would do whatever they wanted. I'm trying to do things right this around so I'm trying to understand everything. I'm just asking questions, if I was intent on doing thigns how I wanted I wouldn't be here asking.

Portugal gets heat waves all the time that can reach 40º. Not mention the heat in Portugal is humid, which is the worst kind of heat and feels even worse. There are nights that we can't even sleep outside on the grass. When I mentioned I could cover SOME parts of the coop during cold nights, it was mostly because you said the coop was really open and didn't offer any shelter, so again, I'm just confused, I'm sorry. English is not my mother language too, so some phrasing could sound offensive when I don't mean it to be that way.

Anyway thanks for your advice, I'll just leave now.

No offense taken and no need to leave, some folks are just very passionate about how their ladies should and deserve to be treated.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. We had chickens growing up and they were just lose and would do whatever they wanted. I'm trying to do things right this around so I'm trying to understand everything. I'm just asking questions, if I was intent on doing thigns how I wanted I wouldn't be here asking.

Portugal gets heat waves all the time that can reach 40º. Not mention the heat in Portugal is humid, which is the worst kind of heat and feels even worse. There are nights that we can't even sleep outside on the grass. When I mentioned I could cover SOME parts of the coop during cold nights, it was mostly because you said the coop was really open and didn't offer any shelter, so again, I'm just confused, I'm sorry. English is not my mother language too, so some phrasing could sound offensive when I don't mean it to be that way.

Anyway thanks for your advice, I'll just leave now.

@pinkjellybeans

I should apologize - I'm frustrated, and it shows. You caught the brunt of some irritation more properly earned by others - I'm posting in multiple places right now, on multiple topics [/edit: and getting pushback from people who object to math. Not that the facts are wrong, or that the algebra isn't done correctly, just that it doesn't support their unsourced opinion to the contrary.]

I'm in FL - also high heat/high humidity. Our winters are mild like yours, for the same reason. BIG body of water right next door. Rainfall similar, too.

Growing up, your loose chickens doing whatever they wanted actually had some advantages over modern management practices. LOTS of space, and the ability to find shelter appropriate to conditions - like digging a little bed next to the house and sitting in the shade during a hot day, or hanging out under the overhang on the side of the house opposite the wind when its cool, wet, and breezy.

Taking away all that space makes the design of a hen house much more critical now, because it has to do so many things, in a little space.

Plenty of high heat, high humidity places use large covered runs, with walls on just two, or part of three, sides (like an "L" or a "C") - so the birds can have a wind break, shade, shelter from rains and some privacy for laying (they like dark boxes and corners) while ensuring plenty of ventilation. Which is why I made the second recommendation I did in the original post.

Regret any misunderstandings from translation errors. You communicate in English quite well, better than some native speakers I know. I didn't consider the possibility in my response.

 

[Lemon-Drop]

Hey there! I know you aren’t very handy, but if you want about ten chickens, here is what I would do.

Look around and see if there’s any old sheds, playhouses, etc that would fit your needs.

5’ by 8’ is what I would look for, or maybe a 3 meter by 2 meter coop for some extra space.

You can easily convert a shed by:
Adding ventilation, near the roof of the coop.
Adding 3 nest boxes. These can be placed inside the coop, but that means you would have to go inside to collect eggs.
Adding 2 roost a few feet off the ground, preferably 10’+ so they have extra space, especially when they fly down so they aren’t hitting each other.

A pop door for the chickens.

And a block/ramp for them to hop up on to get into the coop if it’s easier off the ground.

Then you can circle a run around it, it doesn’t have to be connected. I would use galvanized wire or hardware cloth on a frame, with bird netting on the top to protect from predators. It would need to be about 6 meters by 3 meters. Preferably walk in, so you can easily access it.

Hope this helps!

 

[pinkjellybeans]

@pinkjellybeans

I should apologize - I'm frustrated, and it shows. You caught the brunt of some irritation more properly earned by others - I'm posting in multiple places right now, on multiple topics.

I'm in FL - also high heat/high humidity. Our winters are mild like yours, for the same reason. BIG body of water right next door. Rainfall similar, too.

Growing up, your loose chickens doing whatever they wanted actually had some advantages over modern management practices. LOTS of space, and the ability to find shelter appropriate to conditions - like digging a little bed next to the house and sitting in the shade during a hot day, or hanging out under the overhang on the side of the house opposite the wind when its cool, wet, and breezy.

Taking away all that space makes the design of a hen house much more critical now, because it has to do so many things, in a little space.

Plenty of high heat, high humidity places use large covered runs, with walls on just two, or part of three, sides (like an "L" or a "C") - so the birds can have a wind break, shade, shelter from rains and some privacy for laying (they like dark boxes and corners) while ensuring plenty of ventilation. Which is why I made the second recommendation I did in the original post.

Regret any misunderstandings from translation errors. You communicate in English quite well, better than some native speakers I know. I didn't consider the possibility in my response.

No problems, I realize that sometimes the way I phrase things in English seem a bit blunt or even sarcastic when I don't mean it. I'm honestly just trying to understand why things are the way they are but I can't deny, I am disappointed to hear that I might not be able to get 10 chickens like I wanted to. So maybe I was indeed trying a bit to get my way around the problem and find "flaws" in your reasoning, so I apologize for that.

We had massive renovations a few years ago and our yard is now a lot smaller. Chickens also won't have access to the open field that the previous ones had. So while I know that the place we have now is not the best, I'd still like to get chickens, but I feel sad to think I can only get around 5, since I still wanted to try and make a bit of money off the eggs. But well. I'll have to rethink the whole thing. I tried building a lot of things in the past and it never went well, I'm absolutely useless. So maybe I'm gonna need to put this off and save money to hire someone to build a coop for me.

Either way, thanks for your insight. And thanks to everyone who shared their opinions.

 

[cherrynberry]

No problems, I realize that sometimes the way I phrase things in English seem a bit blunt or even sarcastic when I don't mean it. I'm honestly just trying to understand why things are the way they are but I can't deny, I am disappointed to hear that I might not be able to get 10 chickens like I wanted to. So maybe I was indeed trying a bit to get my way around the problem and find "flaws" in your reasoning, so I apologize for that.

We had massive renovations a few years ago and our yard is now a lot smaller. Chickens also won't have access to the open field that the previous ones had. So while I know that the place we have now is not the best, I'd still like to get chickens, but I feel sad to think I can only get around 5, since I still wanted to try and make a bit of money off the eggs. But well. I'll have to rethink the whole thing. I tried building a lot of things in the past and it never went well, I'm absolutely useless. So maybe I'm gonna need to put this off and save money to hire someone to build a coop for me.

Either way, thanks for your insight. And thanks to everyone who shared their opinions.

Don't say your useless, I am sure it will work out . You should be able to atleast buy a coop for under 2,000 dollars, 1500 sounds about right, you can check out Jamaica cottage shop, they have pre-cuts or OverEZcoops (their coops are amazing/ Amish-built)