I need to learn how to, and when to, stitch wounds.

[Shadrach]

Until recently if I wasn’t reasonably sure about what I was doing I took sick fowl to a vet who had specialised in fowl during her degree.
This vet has moved away and I can’t find another vet within reasonable travelling distance that has any interest, or sufficient knowledge, to treat fowl

The vets here use staples to hold wounds together and I’ve had problems after treatment with staples falling out, getting caught by a cocks spurs during mating and more importantly, not holding the wound together enough to keep dirt out.

It got to a point where having got the vet to clean the wounds properly, administer anaesthetic and anti biotic spray to the wound, none of which I have, I would take the staples out and pack the wound with Stockholm Hoof Tar. This has worked very well for most cases. The wound heals without the ridges in the flesh that the staples tend to leave and the hoof tar prevents dirt getting in the wound. There is a variant of the hoof tar that has antibiotic properties and when I can get it I use this if appropriate.

Having the chickens free range during the day in an area with a high concentration of predators means I see a lot of injuries and now I need to be able to deal with these myself; many of these injuries require stitching.

Many of the drugs recommended for particular diseases either aren’t available to the public, or not available at all where I live. Chickens don’t get to see vets much. They tend to see a sharp knife more often than not. I had to order Flubenvet from the UK for example when I wanted to worm the chickens.

Can anyone recommend a source for drugs and medical supplies that will deal with small quantities, preferably based in the UK?

I am particularly interested in the following:
Anaesthetic spray.
Antibiotic liquid/spray
Coccivex or similar
Flubenzadol in preprepared dosage.
A liquid or powder spray/ puffeer for lice
Needles for stitching and gut, or whatever is best.


I can see there are some people on this forum with a great deal of medical knowledge so I would appreciate some advice.

 

[PouleChick]

Hi I'm in southern France and some of what you are saying is the same here. Are you sure though you can't get the lice stuff - have you tried your local agricultural co-operative (assuming you are in a ruralish area nad not in central Barcelona )? Here they have lots of stuff available both there and in big garden / animal shops but not as much as what I read about on here for the US peeps but certainly lice stuff, coop cleaners, DE, multivits etc. I've noticed the pharmacy also sells some 'medication' type things for cats, dogs and chickens - I know there was mulivits but didn't look too much at the others. Do you speak Spanish?

 

[Shadrach]

I'm in Montseny National Park half way up a mountain.
I can get a lot of the kit you mention in a farming co-op not too far away. What I'm having problems with is the drugs, and of course the stitching knowledge.
Now here's a thing, no I don't speak Spanish; I do speak a bit of Catalan though but not well enough to deal with "have you got a needle suitable for stitching a wounded chicken and what thread would you recommend"You get answered in Spanish anyway.......

 

[PouleChick]

What I'm having problems with is the drugs, and of course the stitching knowledge.

Tricky isn't it. as midwife I kind of know when perhaps a wound needs stitching (generally a depth thing) - maybe deeper than 1/2 cm but never did my training to do it myself before going on maternity leave but could probably work it out on a chicken. I'd say watch some youtube videos - I'm sure there must be online stuff that can teach you. The drugs are the tricky bit (espeacially with Brexit - stuff will start getting checked by customs out of the UK if/once that happens!), I'm just having a quick look on some French forums to see where they get thier stuff from as it may be the same there.

Now here's a thing, no I don't speak Spanish; I do speak a bit of Catalan though but not well enough to deal with "have you got a needle suitable for stitching a wounded chicken and what thread would you recommend"You get answered in Spanish anyway.......

Hubby and I spent 24 hours driving to the Italien dolimites to run a ski chalet listening to the 'Learn to speak Italian' tape only to discover they all spoke thier mountain dialect of Austrian / German . Makes it tough for you though to not be able to ask around.

Sorry couldn't find mention of where to get the meds here either (although there was of different antibiotics etc).

 

[Shadrach]

Thanks for looking. U Tube vids are okay but.....
Given your a midwife perhaps I could email you and you could come and stitch them for me.
I'll wait and see what turns up here. There are a few people here with a phenomenal amount of medical knowledge, maybe one will give me some advice.

 

[rebrascora]

I'm not sure I have come across a post on here or in my own experience where someone felt it necessary to stitch a chicken wound other than perhaps a purse string stitch for a prolapse. When I did crop surgery, I used superglue to close up which worked very nicely in that location, but there is a surplus of skin in the neck area to create an overlap although in reality, I stuck the crop lining together and left the skin wound open. I have heard that dental floss can be used for stitching and just use a needlework needle that has been sterilised either in boiling water or Hibiscrub (Chlorohexidine) and you need to steer clear of anaesthetic, even creams and sprays) because they can be toxic to chickens. I can tell you that it is scary doing surgery on a conscious living animal but if it is that or the likelihood of death it is doable and they don't seem to suffer any trauma from it.... at least for crop surgery anyway. Not saying it is not painful for them but if an impacted crop is killing them and an anaesthetic may kill them, then it is worth the risk.

For large open wounds the bird needs hospitalising to keep out of the dirt and flies and pecking from other hens.... and mating (as you experienced) if you have cockerels/roosters. Having too many adolescent cockerels is a risk in itself and removing them from the flock can prevent a lot of injuries (scalpings and gashes under the wings), stress and illness. Large open wounds can still usually heal without stitching provided they are kept clean and moist. Some people use sugar or raw honey on them. I like good old fashioned Germolene. I also use stuff from my horses first aid kits. Vet wrap is always handy to have on standby, Hibiscrub, fly repellent wound ointment etc. I also find Vick's Vapour Rub works well to kill scaly leg mite and help with respiratory distress. I don't have access to the antibiotics, even in ointments and sprays like they can buy over the counter in the USA, so I have to make do with the items above.

Trigger sprays are great for cleaning and irrigating wounds. I use saline made with sea salt or Hibiscrub. Tea is good for irrigating the eyes.

Those are the best tips I can give you but I am sure others will have better suggestions.

 

[Shadrach]

That’s helpful thank you very much.
I don’t know if I have the courage to stitch or not but I want to have some knowledge and the correct tools for the job.

This is a bit gruesome but it may help in understanding the need to stitch.

Most of the serious wounds I get here are from Hawks. The hawk hits its prey at speed, and hammers the body into the ground. It’s after the internal organs and tears the feathers off the back of the chicken with its beak while standing on the chicken leaving a patch of skin showing and then rakes across the hens back with one of its talons to open the back up. In order to feed the hawk often steps off the chicken in order to use its beak (the hawk is a big bird and

it’s not hard to see that its neck would be very bent and the beak at the wrong angle for eating)

Assuming the chickens is still alive this is when it makes its attempt at escape. If the chicken can get into a thyme bush, or anything with dense foliage, the hawk seems to give up.

The few chickens that do escape have an eighty millimetre (approx) open wound across their back and sometimes it’s not that deep. I think these wounds need stitching.

This is Dink. She’s the only hen here to survive a Goss Hawk attack. Not great pictures but you can see the problem. She got stapled and one didn’t hold.

I get two or three of this type of injury a year. Most die from internal injuries.

I agree the injured chickens need to be hospitalised and I have such a coop but I usually keep them in the house so they’re easy to check and hopefully it’s a bit cleaner until I see a scab forming.
However, the best medicine for the chickens here seems to be being back outside with their tribe.
Being able to stitch a wound and seal it would mean they could rejoin their tribe more quickly.
I haven’t tried cyanoacrylate adhesives, as you point out, they work best when you can overlap a section of skin.
I didn’t know the anaesthetic sprays could be toxic.
You get given antibiotics here if you sniff a bit.
Good tip with the Vics, not sure I can get it here. I use Vaseline and Betadine gel, 3 to 1 mix. The Iodine helps get the mucky deposits off.


Thanks again. I see you’re in the UK. Any suggestions for medical supplies?

 

[rebrascora]

The things I have mentioned can all be bought in a pharmacy or feed store here in the UK or DIY shop for the super glue. I can't advise regarding surgical needles. Steri-strips might be a better bet and more easily acquired I would imagine. Have you tried searching online?
I wonder if hen saddles might not be a good idea if your girls are getting their backs ripped up by hawks. You could make them in heavy duty camouflage fabric to help your white hens be less of a target. You could perhaps fit them with a wound dressing taped on the underside for your injured girls, so that they could go back out after a short initial treatment period.

 

[FlyingNunFarm]

Believe it or not you can get suture kits on Amazon. Most antibiotics are hard to come by. In the US some stores will carry a few in large quantities. Most of the time we use off label products. For example Fish Zole. It's metronidazole for treating a fish tank. And fish within. You have to make sure there aren't added ingredients. I had to order Fish Zole because the version in the store also had a wormer in. Way too much to be given repeatedly.
As for injuries on the back or body I use stockinette. Medical supply stores sometimes have it but if not Amazon again. I do put a saddle/apron over the stockinette but it has worked wonders for me.

 

[Shadrach]

I made a contact who works in the animal rescue center in the next National Park North of here. Ironically, they treat the hawks that kill the chickens here. I'm going there for some stitching lessons.
I've got a camouflage saddle which leaves the wings free and fastens around the neck and under the wings. There are two problems; it's too hot here for most of the year (it's 31 degrees C in the shade here now)for a chicken to wear. I'm also concerned, given all the chickens here are free range during daylight hours that the saddle will get caught in the stocknet fencing and other obstructions that feathers can cope with.
I'll try Amazon again but a lot of suppliers wont ship to Spain....
Thank you both.