i think i need a dog--what breed is best?

[Cara]

Well, these birds just happen to be domestic livestock. So, I think the Livestock Guardian Dogs were bred specifically to guard livestock....birds included!

Hmm not according to the Great Pyrenees Rescue:

Since it is not possible for a pup to form a bond with either birds or alpacas, dogs from these situations are now turning up in rescue with greater frequency.

Most people seem to recommend a combination of techniques including:

- putting 'disposable' animals like excess roosters so nothing too important will be lost if an 'accident' should happen (and they will happen, particularily with poultry in our experience).

No breed is 100% reliable for any job. Not all police dogs make the grade; some retrievers won't fetch; not every Labrador is going to make a seeing eye dog. These dogs are bred to protect sheep, cattle, and goats from large predators such as coyotes and wolves, but will often try to break up a fight between two birds. Human or canine, we all make mistakes, and a dog-sized mistake on a chicken isn't usually something that you'd care to see. I truly believe it is doing a disservice to any breed to describe them as guaranteed suitable for any specific purpose, least of all one they are not specifically bred for.

I don't particularly care if you are convinced...as long as I am. I'm not the one who has to keep my dogs and chickens separate!

I get to enjoy the feeling of my chickens being safe, my dogs running free in my own yard and the peace of mind that comes with that scenario!

Our dogs are kept separate for several reasons:

1. Two are working SAR dogs, two are cattle dogs, and the fifth hunts. They are not home 24/7, so who or what would watch the birds while they were gone?

2. Practicality of housing the birds. We can't have 80+ birds in our backyard, including numerous roosters! I keep my breeds separate in several different barns on the ranch, dogs belong in a pack, and we don't need 20+ dogs.

3. It is not safe or responsible to allow our dogs to run loose 24/7. There are many predators that are a risk to the dogs themselves, such as mountain lions, coyotes, bears and rattlesnakes. Several neighbours choose not to spay their grump, and we do not want my husband's stud dog to cause unwanted litters.

4. It is equally as unsafe to free range our birds. We may as well chop their heads off first and spare the hassle. The cost of freedom would be their lives. We cannot erect bird-proof fencing around nearly 300,000 acres, or reasonably expect any dog to cover that area. Sooner or later something would kill a bird, and there would be no telling what and little hope of prevention. We do not have the only dogs here, but we are the only ones who know where our dogs are at any given time.

5. One of them is a Pointer! Hunting birds is his job, and not something that I wish to discourage.

6. We don't need them to guard the birds. For the sake of a few hundred dollars, i'd rather know that my birds are as safe as they can be from any predator, and enjoy the companionship of my dogs.

7. The birds have more than enough space in their runs, and providing adequate protection and living quarters for them is my responsibility as their owner. Their safety is my responsibility, not my dogs'.​

 

[ninjapoodles]

Quote:
MOST of my dogs have never threatened a chicken, but they all have a high prey drive. It's just not something that you know for sure until you've left them alone to their own devices as a test, is it? And just because a dog has always BEEN trustworthy around prey doesn't mean they always WILL be. I'm just not willing to take the chance. Plus, one of mine is a bird-dog who will be hunting with my husband, and I don't want to give her any conflicting information about her relationship with birds.

The absolute WORST nuisance dogs on my street are a pair of Great Pyrennese who are aggressive and are left to roam free 24/7 (the owners insist they have this freedom in order to carry out their duties as "livestock guardian dogs," and sadly, there is no leash law out where I live), and pretty much terrorize the neighborhood.

I think you can have "bird dogs" who are totally safe around poultry, and "livestock guardians" who are a danger to poultry, like Cara said. I don't think it's a matter of "not trusting" your dogs at all...I think it's just knowing that, with live animals, NOTHING is 100% a sure thing 100% of the time. The brokest, gentlest horse, say, could get bee-stung and buck, or spooked badly by something really scary and bolt. The best dog in the world could get its instinctive buttons pushed one day and act on those instincts. So, you use caution. You wear a helmet and stay alert on your horse, even if it's a "deadhead," and you supervise your dog around prey animals. Just caution. Whether it's too cautious just depends on your outlook and how much risk you want to assume.

 

[Beekissed]

Whether it's too cautious just depends on your outlook and how much risk you want to assume.

My point exactly! If a dog has shown himself to be trustworthy, then its a good gamble to trust them. Nothing in this life is certain, except that we will all die. I am taking that assumed risk and it sounds as if many others do the same. We aren't putting dogs of unknown temperament in with a flock and saying, "Here ya go, hope ya don't kill any today." We put our animals together, closely observe, monitor and correct unwanted behavior, continue to monitor and observe, and, eventually, we have faith. Its the same as raising a child, you can do everything you possibly can to train them in the way they should go, then you trust God that you've done the job right. Not all dogs are chicken killers. I have Lab mixes that will not retrieve, not for love or money....isn't that in their instinct? Nope. I have one that is a Border Collie Mix but he has yet to show herding instinct....he does like to sniff butts to the nth degree on any animal that walks near (except chickens!). Isn't it in a herd breed to herd? Not all dogs follow the instincts that are naturally bred into them.

The brokest, gentlest horse, say, could get bee-stung and buck, or spooked badly by something really scary and bolt.

But you ride them anyway, don't you? Yes, everyone I'm sure exercises caution when they ride a horse. That's why people who keep their dogs with their chickens are always observing for behaviors. But everyone who rides a horse isn't 100% vigilant at all times or they couldn't enjoy the ride. They usually don't ride the spooky horses for this very reason...because they could never enjoy the ride for fear of an episode.

I'm not 100% vigilant with the dogs at all times....do you observe and monitor your dogs interactions with your children(of any age) at all times, or do you trust them to play together in the back yard at times while you are inside, or in the house, while you are in another room? Its really the same thing, if you are constantly looking over your shoulder and expecting bad behavior from your dogs, why bother to have any? What enjoyment can they possibly be?

I'll take the assumed risk and enjoy my animals, thanks.

 

[Queen Scoot]

the great pyr.....it will guard whatever you want/need it to
ETA i have a brittnay spaniel.....who yes is a bird dog but knows not to touch mommas chickens!!

 

[Grass]

i have a german shepard collie mix thats awesome with the chickens shes the protector.....my other dog i cant even let loose in the yard it's a rotti and golden retriever mix and will kill anything that moves in the yard.i'd come home a full flock of dead chickens if i let her run loose with them

 

[pdsavage]

I have 2 mutts that dont bother the chickens.
well the chickens are in the pens.But they don't try and dig in or jump at the fencing.Sadie (rott mix)will while im there look in to see me.
Mac is rescued from animal controle he is almost a year old but learning fast,he does not bother my chickens at all.
I will say like others rescue a dog and train it.I work with mine,Sadie will gaurd my trash when i put it at the curb (no leash law in town).
We have all kinds of wild life and free roaming dogs that so far my dogs have kept at bay.
i only had one cat proublem and that was a stray cat i adopted whom was near death.He is gone now and my other cats never bothered them.
So get a mutt and save a dogs life.....

 

[Cara]

Quote:
If they were always observing their dogs, they wouldn't need them, they could watch for predators themselves! Anyone who knows dogs knows that they are going to be on their best behaviour when they are being watched!

I'm not 100% vigilant with the dogs at all times....do you observe and monitor your dogs interactions with your children(of any age) at all times, or do you trust them to play together in the back yard at times while you are inside, or in the house, while you are in another room? Its really the same thing, if you are constantly looking over your shoulder and expecting bad behavior from your dogs, why bother to have any? What enjoyment can they possibly be?

Killing children isn't instinctive; killing small game is. All dogs have the same ancestor, and without this instinct would never have survived.

I don't expect 'bad' behaviour from my dogs; I expect them to act like dogs. The key to truly understanding and being able to train them is accepting that they think like dogs, not like me. We thoroughly enjoy them, particularly because they are companions and partners, not avian security guards! I trust my Bloodhound enough to follow her for miles if she is telling me that is the route a victim took; I trust my retriever mix enough to believe her if she says she has found human remains; if she tells me she has found a victim, I believe her. I do not distrust them, I accept them for what they are.​

 

[ninjapoodles]

Quote:
EXACTLY. And I'd wager that Cara and I enjoy our animals as much as anyone.

I absolutely agree with what Beekissed said about willingly assuming the risk--because that's exactly what you're doing: weighing the possible risk against the benefits of an action or non-action. That's how we live our lives. If the benefit of having your dogs running with your chickens outweighs the risk, in your estimation, then that's what you're going to do. I don't have a problem with that. And of course, it isn't my BUSINESS the way someone else raises their animals.

I'd have to say that I AM always cautious when riding horses, but I DO very much enjoy riding. I learned the hard way when I was young and NOT as cautious. I learned about prey drive in dogs the same way, with years of dealing with various temperaments and personalities not just of my own dogs, but of countless foster dogs, as well. I had years of good experiences with fosters, including some that came to me labeled "vicious." The worst fostering experience I ever had was with a sweet, SWEET, gentle, Great Pyr/Golden mix. He came to me starved and groveling. 50 pounds and weeks of TLC later, he was in glorious condition...and coming back into his "true" temperament. While still submissive toward me, he began attacking other dogs. I didn't give up on him, thinking he'd be OK as an "only dog," until the day he bit me. I sent him back at that point, and the rescue org wound up putting him down. The worst part of that whole story is that a mentor of mine, when she met that dog, spent 5 minutes with him, and said, "Belinda, you need to get this dog out of here before he hurts one of your dogs. Trust me." Fool that I was, I didn't. I looked at that sweet, grateful, grinning face, and trusted IT instead of her. Why? Because "he'd been so good!" I just "knew" he'd never hurt anyone.

I think that the argument about "instinctive" behaviors got a little disingenuous in comparing behaviors that have been bred INTO certain breeds over a relatively short period of time against instincts that have been part of canids since their very beginning.

 

[ticks]

I say a lab just because they are loyal and nice and kind

 

[amazondoc]

Do NOT get a doberman. It's the best breed in the entire world, but NOT a good bet for tolerating tasty morsels running around.