I thought it was legal but...
- Thread starter chandasue
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- #22
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This is true for WA also
This is true for WA also
Quote:
A lot of places would have regulations against such a large quantity of internally stored luncheon meats. Make him a deal...he keeps the bologna, and you keep the chickens.
A lot of places would have regulations against such a large quantity of internally stored luncheon meats. Make him a deal...he keeps the bologna, and you keep the chickens.
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- #25
Quote:
This is absolutely corrrect. Unless CC&R's are incorporated within the municipal or county framework, they only apply to your neighborhood and the group that embodies it's ruling association.
Now, you dont get off totally Scot free. You must also adhere to county codes, as may apply. You said NO large livestock on property under 5 acres, as I recall, so I suspect you have no violation.
When she sold it to a developer, her (and maybe the developer) wrote out the covenants to keep out the "riff-raff."
This is normally the case, especially if it is a private development out in the county. As I said before, the owner/developer etc. can make up whatever rules they want and call them covenants. Most people who want to buy in such a development as yours expect them, so they most often exist. Generally, they will be generic but there can be specifics.
WHY people would move into such an imposing arrangment has always baffled me, but hey, that is another issue altogether.
The original owner may have entered the covenenants (if they exist as such) as deed restrictions, however, so you should focus on that. That is their right and the purchaser must honor them or petition to have them repealed, which is a bothersome process. It is a good point you made that the owner and developer may have been in collusion on the matter and so they originated that way - you'll have to learn that.
But the point is, these are vastly different than the simple covenants of some hoity-toity "homeowners club," so tread lightly here.
There is no one to report to as far as I know. We've lived here over a year and this is the first we've heard of anything. The neighbor that informed me of all this said that if someone files a complaint with the county we'd be served and we'd have to go to court or become compliant with the covenant laws.
After scanning through all this, I would be inclined to think you are under jurisdictional prudence - that is to say, the county codes and ordinances are enforceable. You can be taken to court for violation of those, and the association CAN enter civil plea against you if they want to pursue any of their own little restrictions.... but it doesn't sound as if there is anyone to care that much.
PERSONAL OBSERVATION: Normally, if there is an active HOA with a body of regents, you would have heard from them long before now. They are usually small minded people with a little power, and so they wield it widely. It's pretty hard to escape the notice of such folks.
With your little Band of 8 there in WaterBush Acres, it's going to be a much better thing to just get everyone together, have a chat and move on.
If all else fails, do what everyone else does: blame the lawyers. CC&R's should surface during preliminary title and document searches/verifications. They will be included in your property documents, if they exist. If they missed them and so failed to include them, point the finger and scream "foul!"
BTW youre doing a great job of this! Nice, cool head you got there....
This is absolutely corrrect. Unless CC&R's are incorporated within the municipal or county framework, they only apply to your neighborhood and the group that embodies it's ruling association.
Now, you dont get off totally Scot free. You must also adhere to county codes, as may apply. You said NO large livestock on property under 5 acres, as I recall, so I suspect you have no violation.
When she sold it to a developer, her (and maybe the developer) wrote out the covenants to keep out the "riff-raff."
This is normally the case, especially if it is a private development out in the county. As I said before, the owner/developer etc. can make up whatever rules they want and call them covenants. Most people who want to buy in such a development as yours expect them, so they most often exist. Generally, they will be generic but there can be specifics.
WHY people would move into such an imposing arrangment has always baffled me, but hey, that is another issue altogether.
The original owner may have entered the covenenants (if they exist as such) as deed restrictions, however, so you should focus on that. That is their right and the purchaser must honor them or petition to have them repealed, which is a bothersome process. It is a good point you made that the owner and developer may have been in collusion on the matter and so they originated that way - you'll have to learn that.
But the point is, these are vastly different than the simple covenants of some hoity-toity "homeowners club," so tread lightly here.
There is no one to report to as far as I know. We've lived here over a year and this is the first we've heard of anything. The neighbor that informed me of all this said that if someone files a complaint with the county we'd be served and we'd have to go to court or become compliant with the covenant laws.
After scanning through all this, I would be inclined to think you are under jurisdictional prudence - that is to say, the county codes and ordinances are enforceable. You can be taken to court for violation of those, and the association CAN enter civil plea against you if they want to pursue any of their own little restrictions.... but it doesn't sound as if there is anyone to care that much.
PERSONAL OBSERVATION: Normally, if there is an active HOA with a body of regents, you would have heard from them long before now. They are usually small minded people with a little power, and so they wield it widely. It's pretty hard to escape the notice of such folks.
With your little Band of 8 there in WaterBush Acres, it's going to be a much better thing to just get everyone together, have a chat and move on.
If all else fails, do what everyone else does: blame the lawyers. CC&R's should surface during preliminary title and document searches/verifications. They will be included in your property documents, if they exist. If they missed them and so failed to include them, point the finger and scream "foul!"
BTW youre doing a great job of this! Nice, cool head you got there....
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Go back to your phone records and your memory to document the calls and what was said. Keep in a safe place. It sounds like you acted responsibly and sometimes a country ordinance will override a subdivision rule under law, particularly in an agricultural zone. Do not assume you are wrong until you have all the information. If things go bad, I think it would be worth an hour with a property lawyer.
I am in the same predicament as you. We have 2-3 acre lots here.We live in the woods. I guess there is a covenience saying the same thing no livestock but.... my nierbor has horses, nierbor has chickens and so on.. I also heard as long as the nierbors dont complain we can keep our livestock. UP here where we live you can have livestock on 1 acre min.. I dont think I will have any problems as all the nierbors want to buy eggs from me!! PLus my husband was doing some research (looking through all our contracts when signing on the home) He says our home and the one next to us where the first ones build here and they dont have a convinance but the rest of the homes do.SO I am very confused..... guess I will just have to worry about it if the nierbors start complaining lol.
- May 27, 2009
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Great comments by Davaroo. He must be a realtor. Myself, I am a lawyer and former planning commissioner and current chicken owner.
I suspect that your POA is DOA. I would just do whatever you want and not worry about it. Don't keep roosters and, if you get goats, don't get Nubians, they are noisy. Maybe have a SUnday brunch and invite the neighbors and serve omlettes and fried chicken. Don't forget the Screwdrivers and Bloody Marys.
I have Tennesse Fainting Goats myself and they are pretty quiet and easy to contain. We have two new babies this week! I find the occasional bleating to be soothing, especially compared to the neighbors' dogs.
The neighbors are ga ga for the baby goats so if you do get goats, you can use them to keep the neighbors on your side. Maybe wait until they have the babies to schedule the brunch and let them pet the little ones.
I won't get into suing the lawyers who did your closing, assuming you used one. You might be able to go after the realtor if you didn't have a lawyer and she misled you. There is such a thing as "real estate malpractice".
I suspect that your POA is DOA. I would just do whatever you want and not worry about it. Don't keep roosters and, if you get goats, don't get Nubians, they are noisy. Maybe have a SUnday brunch and invite the neighbors and serve omlettes and fried chicken. Don't forget the Screwdrivers and Bloody Marys.
I have Tennesse Fainting Goats myself and they are pretty quiet and easy to contain. We have two new babies this week! I find the occasional bleating to be soothing, especially compared to the neighbors' dogs.
The neighbors are ga ga for the baby goats so if you do get goats, you can use them to keep the neighbors on your side. Maybe wait until they have the babies to schedule the brunch and let them pet the little ones.
I won't get into suing the lawyers who did your closing, assuming you used one. You might be able to go after the realtor if you didn't have a lawyer and she misled you. There is such a thing as "real estate malpractice".
Honestly, it's not up to any realtor to tell you the codes and restrictions (I was one for 8 years). You must look them up for yourself and see them in writing since it's all public record. Hope it all works out for you. Generally, neighborhood covenants can be more restrictive than county ordinances, though I've seen many illegal covenants in my day, especially the ones that designate where you can put a satellite dish. They can't tell you that and no one has to obey it because it's just illegal, period.
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