I thought it was legal but...

[Davaroo]

Myself, I am a lawyer and former planning commissioner and current chicken owner.
Just the ticket!

I suspect that your POA is DOA. I would just do whatever you want and not worry about it.
Maybe have a Sunday brunch and invite the neighbors, serve omlettes and fried chicken. Don't forget the Screwdrivers and Bloody Marys.
The neighbors are ga ga for the baby goats so if you do get goats, you can use them to keep the neighbors on your side. Maybe wait until they have the babies to schedule the brunch and let them pet the little ones.
I like the way you think!


I won't get into suing the lawyers who did your closing, assuming you used one. You might be able to go after the realtor if you didn't have a lawyer and she misled you. There is such a thing as "real estate malpractice".
Real estate training, such as it is, runs the gamut from thorough to sketchy. There are no requirements to know anything about business or economics or the law. If you can read, memorize some charts and pass a test - you can get a license to sell real estate.

Some offices do a great job after licensure to train their people, some don't. Of course, the bottom line for them is to SELL, SELL, SELL. That is the first priority of any Realtor. Second is to do nothing that will land them in court or put their license at risk. But you have to prove deliberate breach of fiduciary duties in order to trip them up. Most get in trouble over money anyway, not forgetting to tell you about some covenants.

Honestly, it's not up to any realtor to tell you the codes and restrictions (I was one for 8 years). You must look them up for yourself and see them in writing since it's all public record. Generally, neighborhood covenants can be more restrictive than county ordinances....
Cyn is right here, too. Realtors are not obligated to do more than uphold the aforementioned fiduciary duties for their clients. Now, one of these duties is disclosure, and they dont want to deliberately occlude inportant things - that will end their career. But hey, if they fail to point out a few HOA covenants, well....it happens. It can be written off as an "error" and there is little that will happen.

I always asked about them up front at the first interview, along with things like known deed restrictions, who are the primaries, who else has easement, and so on. See, I don't like surprises... they are deal killers.

And yes, I'm an inactive licensee in South Carolina.

 

[rancher hicks]

Is it possible to get a copy of the zoning? Is it possible that other neighbors have chickens? Is it possible to get a (i can't think of what it's called just now) a waiver, something like that? You have to apply for it. There is power in numbers. In the "History of Chickens" the guy had everything set but then the neighbors got together and took him to court and a judge changed things so he could only have 5 roos, he had 100. Maybe for you the reverse is possible if you can get the numbers.

 

[chandasue]

Well, sadly my last roo will head to the freezer tomorrow just to keep anyone from having an excuse to complain. But if it keeps the peace it's worth it. Thanks for in info, BigPeep. I don't even know who to be mad at. I didn't even know what a covenant was until this whole thing. We closed at a title company with the real estate agent. I emailed the title co and they pointed the finger at the real estate agent. I'm betting she'll point it back at them. It was a foreclosure, I never considered getting a lawyer for closing since I didn't with my first house either. Learning the hard way, as usual... I'm looking at a couple of smaller LaManchas, the owner says not quite mini's but small for the breed, and very quiet. She said they sound like they "ma" with their mouths closed. I passed out 3 dozen free eggs this weekend. When I have the goats I think some goats milk soap for everyone will also be in order.

 

[consdrs]

Quote:
While reading this thread this was what I was thinking. If you don't have a home owners association who is going to enforce the rules? this is the case where I live. we have cc&r's that restrict poultry. who do I go to to change this, no one. there is no HOA to complain to. the city does not enforce neighborhood rules only city rules and the city says I can have as many as I want. you would have to have a neighbor rebellion and take you to court, $$. I had a new neighbor who came to my house 2 weeks ago wanting to look at my coop. she asked about the rules and how I got around them and I told her "Who do I ask? "Who is the president of the neighborhood?" We don't have one thank goodness. she was OK with that answer and now has 5 chicks.

Yep just another enabler...


Connie
chicken outlaw...

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

State laws vary as to what disclosures are required.

In Arizona realtors are legally responsible for ensuring disclosure of CC&Rs (and a bunch of other stuff as well. It is considered a BIG DEAL. Purchasers are required to sign a paper stating "I hereby acknowledge that the declaration, bylaws and rules of the association constitute a contract between the association and me (the purchaser). By signing this statement, I acknowledge that I have read and understand the association's contract with me (the purchaser)." A sale (if the property is part of an HOA or condominium) cannot close without that signed statement.

Property sellers are legally required to disclose all problems that they know about the property. If something breaks and its condition should have been known and disclosed, the seller, even though the property has already sold, is responsible for at minimum all repair costs. If a realtor knows of a problem, he or she is legally obligated to disclose it. Of course, that simply means that a lot of things are listed in the listing as "as is."

 

[quiltnchik]

Quote:
Yeah, our HOA tried to make us move our dish, said it was too close to the road and that one of their people could hit it when pushing snow or whatever. My DH finally got tired of arguing with them and told them to send maintenance over to show him where to move it (they kept saying it was in the "ditch line," though there's no ditch there; it's at the top of a hill next to the road). After DH told them that, we never heard another word from them...

 

[BigPeep]

In the "Natural History of Chickens" video, there was a guy who bought an ag zoned five acre lot right next to a subdivision and then proceeded to bring in up to 100 fighting game cocks to raise for cock fighting. He was sued as a nuisance and was required to get rid of all of his birds up to five. They recorded the crowing and estimated that there were up to 20,000 crows per day!

It's not a defense to a nuisance lawsuit that the zoning permits the use. The issue is if it seriously devalues adjoining property. Twenty Thousand Crows per day will do that.

In many states there are right to farm laws specifically to protect farmers against such suits. Many of them require that the farm be pre-existing to the neighboring uses. Game Cock Fighting Man moved in after the subdivision was already there, although I think there had been a pig farm there previously.

In our state if the land is used for any type of agricultural or horticultural purpose prior to the other uses coming in around it, the owner cannot be sued for nuisance and if he is, the other parties have to pay his attorneys fees. This would apply even if the nature of the ag use changed, such as from a corn operation to a dairy farm.

There is an old Native American Saying: " Man who live downwind from neighbor with ag zoning should not piss neighbor off. "

Every state will be different so you have to look up your own laws.

 

[justmeandtheflock]

Sorry, I didn't read all the responses but it sounds like you are talking about deed restrictions. If it's not in your title search I think you are OK. If they didn't put it in the deed before you bought the property they have no control.

 

[Davaroo]

Quote:
In general, yes. But, that is not an absolute. If you entered into an HOA, 'de facto', then you are bound by their rules... even if you didn't know what they were beforehand.

 

[chandasue]

Thanks for really hashing this out, everyone! It's really opened my eyes to ag law and real estate business. As far as I can tell, the covenant is the only issue. We are definitely zoned agriculture and there is definitely no HOA. So like others have said, keep the neighbors happy and hopefully we won't have a problem.