Icelandic Chickens

[RedIII]

Thanks Red, I also thought about this, but the thing is, we have had very inbred and isolated flocks of birds in Iceland (to the point where one farm has a very distinct group of birds, considerably genetically different from all other Icelandic Settlement Chickens, considered by some to be a separate strain) without me being able to find a single mention of a genetic fray issue. Some of these birds had been isolated for a long time in very small flocks when the revival and rescue happened. I find it hard to understand that if the gene hides undetected in the Icelandic breed in Iceland for 1200 years under heavy inbreeding and isolation, how come it does not get expressed there at all, but has popped up in the U.S. in a couple of decades? If location doesn't matter, why doesn't this also happen in Iceland?

Hmm, very interesting. So if there are what could be considered different strains of the Icelandic chicken in it's native homeland, I wonder if the mutation we're talking about cropped up as a result of crossing two different strains? I could be wrong, but it just made me wonder.

 

[kathyinmo]

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[kathyinmo]

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[RedIII]

It was not a hidden gene. It is a mutation. Your genes - cells are constantly being renewed (copied). This gene mutation just happened when being "copied."

Then this could be a recent mutation that developed?

Forgive me if I seem to be going in circles. I'm just trying to understand this better.

Edit for clarification: Then mutations are not affected by hidden genes? This mutation just randomly manifested here - just the luck of the draw, stock didn't matter - and now we're seeing it being passed on as a different gene from the original bird it occurred in?

 

[RedIII]

Kathy, I apologize if my questions are making you frustrated. I appreciate that you are taking the time to try and explain it so that others can understand it better.

And Icelander, I appreciate your input on this, as well. Genetics are an interesting thing to learn about, for sure.

 

[kathyinmo]

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[RedIII]

Yes, it could be. Or, it could have been in one of the birds (in Iceland, or anywhere) and just never passed on until recently. Remember, for each trait you get one gene from each parent. BOTH parents must pass on the fray gene for it to be visible in the offspring. For example - some birds may be carrying the gene (they have 2, and one can be normal and one fray), but passing on the "normal" gene instead.

Kind of like how in humans, you can have one parent with brown eyes, one with blue eyes, and they have a child with green eyes? They were both carriers of the trait, though it didn't show.

Or, as you put it here, one parent with blue eyes, one with brown, and their children all have brown eyes? Even though they all have brown eyes, the kids still carry genes for the blue-eyed trait.

 

[kathyinmo]

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[Hangtown Farms]

wow better grab a iced cold beverage and a chair and read what all the Posting fuss is about ...

 

[NotAFarm]

I was just catching up on +30 pages of posts and just wanted to chime in on the "frey" or "fray" (I can never remember) issue, because I think this may be discouraging to a lot of new owners and breeders of the Icelandic Settlement Chicken that are getting introduced to the breed through this thread. I am, myself, a newcomer and this was certainly an issue for me and was part of the reason I decided to get hatching eggs directly from Iceland to establish my homestead flock.

As I have perhaps mentioned before (sorry if I repeat myself), I've looked through a fair amount of pictures from owners and breeders of flocks in Iceland and not seen anything like the pictures posted here of "frey" birds. I have also searched through message boards and comments (in Icelandic, I am a native speaker) looking for feathering issues and not seen any mention of it, and I have also asked the largest breeder (in Iceland) about it and he said most feather issues he has seen have had external causes (pecking, temperature, health, nutrition etc.) and was not familiar with any genetic "frey" feather issue such as described here. Surely, if anyone would be aware of this issue in Iceland, it would be him as he is the president of the Icelandic Owners and Breeders Association and the largest Icie breeder in Iceland with over 200 birds. Also, Iceland is full of small, closely related flocks that have been inbred for very long periods of time, but still seem to be free of this problem, so I am hesitant to agree to just blame excessive inbreeding. It would seem, at first glance, that the "frey" issue is not a part of the Icelandic gene pool or that it is at least, for some unknown reason, unique to the U.S. I have only hatched a small number of birds, but they all came directly from Iceland and none have had feather issues, but my current sample size (9 birds total) is so minuscule as to be irrelevant.

I'm not looking to be controversial, maybe I feel stronger about this because I'm Icelandic myself and these are "our birds", but I just don't think it is fair for some ,folks to blame this "frey" problem (or allow it to be blamed) on "the Icelandic landrace", as if the breed itself is somehow inherently defective, when this problem does not even seem to exist in Iceland at least as far as I have been able to discover. Isn't it possible that the "frey" birds are not 100% Icelandic (and, therefore, not "Icelandic" at all, since an Icelandic landrace bird must be 100% pure to be called "Icelandic")? I am very sorry if this is bursting someone's bubble, and I'm sure this won't make me popular, but I just feel like it needs to be said.

TL;DR - The "frey" issue does not seem to exist in Iceland. Maybe those birds are not pure?

Please explain exactly how you were able to "get hatching eggs directly from Iceland to establish" your flock. Many of us would be interested in doing this.

Why beat around the bush, just say that you feel there has been crossbreeding?

Finally, you came right out and said it. Whose bubble do you feel you are bursting?

So, are you saying that the only pure birds in the United States of America are your birds?