Ideal hatchery and breeds

[WannaBeHillBilly]

Imagine my choices....In Chile we have NO runners or KC ducks and the only breeder has Muscovy and Pekins... Metzer told m he would ship hr but for $$$

I personally don't really care about breeds, clean or not. I grew up with a lot of cats and they all were "street mixes", healthy wild and very active. One neighbor had a "Persian" cat, she was a real diva, never caught even a grasshopper, always had a runny nose and was too fat to even jump on the couch. But she was an expensive "clean breed", they paid over $1,000 for the kitten at that time… One night she was raped to death by some "dirty street tomcats" (said the neighbor) because she couldn't defend herself. Our mutt-cat brought a rabbit home the same night…
But i understand that people want to have birds that conform to the standards of a breed and in that case Ideal is wrong place to buy.

 

[Conan]

If they are a Cayuga cross, I'd say congrats! I started with fawn and white runners and Cayugas. My Cayugas are MUCH better layers. I know that runners are supposed to be top notch, and I'm sure I likely have an anomaly, but my runner hen hasn't laid in years. She is noisy, skittish, and useless. I love her anyways.
My Cayugas are skittish too, but man, are they ever great layers. This is their fifth year, and they still lay. Not as many eggs, for sure, but they more than earn their keep in bug patrol, winter garden weeding, and eggs.

 

[Trimurtisan]

Just for a reference, the Black Runner here was born 6/5, she's only 3 days old in the pic, and you can see the upright structure. Side note, she was running from me and it was cute!

This picture is from yesterday. The Fawn & white are about 3 weeks behind her. The Black lady is standing on a ramp by the way, she's not really that tall. They came from a hatchery too, but not Ideal.

Although no Runners, as stated before, they are beautiful. I don't have any Cayuga, but I would really like to.

When I got my dog, I was shopping for a Great Dane, I ended up with a 8lbs American Hairless Terrier. She was not what I wanted, but she was exactly what I needed. Best plans gone wrong in my entire life.

 

[Loopeend]

I personally don't really care about breeds, clean or not. I grew up with a lot of cats and they all were "street mixes", healthy wild and very active. One neighbor had a "Persian" cat, she was a real diva, never caught even a grasshopper, always had a runny nose and was too fat to even jump on the couch. But she was an expensive "clean breed", they paid over $1,000 for the kitten at that time… One night she was raped to death by some "dirty street tomcats" (said the neighbor) because she couldn't defend herself. Our mutt-cat brought a rabbit home the same night…
But i understand that people want to have birds that conform to the standards of a breed and in that case Ideal is wrong place to buy.

I also have a pedigree cat from a small breeder; I used to breed pedigree rats, and now pedigree Indian runners.
Small good breeders that breed for the most healthy and best (character)traits need to be supported.
There is nothing wrong with mutts; cats or ducks. They can be healthy, nice, perfect. But we need people who purposely breed for health too; otherwise it will dissapear. And to fight against these massive intentionally bad-breeders for money.

Persians; whole other story. They are not bred for health. For this reason my "Indian runner ducks with legs that never end" will never be breeded with Indian runners with the same long leggs. It might be pretty and showstandard; it bothers them. They are unstable on their legs; insecure; can't walk stairs or enter a pool. The longness of the legs is reached; intentionally breeding that long legs in them is creating handicapped ducks.

Long story short; If you make a choice where to buy ducks; go for the places where they breed for health. And keep in mind that perfect breedstandards does not equal health. Mutts can be healthy and cheap; a breed from a good breeder can be healthy, more expensive but you pay for the breeder it's attention to keep the breed as healthy as possible. Neither are wrong; just one too avoid; breeders for the money.

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

 

[Trimurtisan]

x2!

 

[Trimurtisan]

Small good breeders that breed for the most healthy and best (character)traits need to be supported.

I'm no authority on breeding animals, but have bred plants for a long time. It's usually the person who care enough about the breed/strain enough to preserve them. Have the little extra eye to detail, and know when a bad parent is just that.

My experience with birds and breeders so far mimics what you said. We have 22 ducks from hatcheries, and love them regardless of genetic past. However some are just not what they should be. Of the chickens I bought some came from long term private breeders who care about the animals health, and it really shows. I also bought some show quality Silkies, and I suspect inbreeding depression. The Silkes are "perfect" (and pricey for that matter ) but I don't like them nearly as much as I did my bantam mutts that where free. Actually I don't like them at all...

That being said, I have zilch for duck breeding experience, but do have plans to start when the time is right. I'd love to be able to pick your brain sometime.
If you have a link or 2 in regards to learning basic duck breeding, I'd happily go have a read in the meantime.

 

[Loopeend]

I'm no authority on breeding animals, but have bred plants for a long time. It's usually the person who care enough about the breed/strain enough to preserve them. Have the little extra eye to detail, and know when a bad parent is just that.

Good breeders; no matter what species; think the same. Just like plant breeding I suppose! I personally find it a shame if a breed like Indian runners would become extinct because everyone just breeds like "whatevs". It's throwing away hundreds of years of invested breeders-history! I sometimes peek at the chickens here; and am amazed. A lot of pupular chicken breeds from literally every tiny village around me are still bred in the U.S.A. We had a weird phase/fad a few 100 years ago where your tiny village only ment something with it's own chicken-breed. That was fashion and also some kind of contest; like competing soccer/football teams! That history is preserved by breeders all over the world :O (while you hardly can't find them over here anymore :'( )
That being said; that the preserving is also preserving history; that all is useless when you don't breed healthy. It's probably not different in plants. Allthough you want to preserve; putting the "preserving" above and chosing pretty but unhealthy plants for that will bite you in the bottom in the end; it will not last. Sometimes you have to have a bit of a setback and breed with uglier healthy ones to keep them healthy.

I don't know any websites with basics for duckbreeding. But I think with these basic rules you can start your own; even from mutts;
- Never let family have offspring.
- Be 100 % sure who the parents are.
- Ring the ducks.
- Create an database with every ringed duck in it. Write down information about them.
- Keep contact information from the people your ducks go to; ask them to contact you when it died/is sick/ anything unusual. Contact themself regularly to ask how the ducks are doing.
- When you see a negative tendency in offspring like; dieing early for no clear reasons; having a lot of infertile eggs or chicks die in eggs, all a lot of stress, or any deformity that can harm the duck; quit with breeding with any family-member of these ducks; contact breeders with this information and ask them to not let that duck have offspring.
- Make ethical dicissions. And don't hurry dicissions. Let's say; you want to create a breed that lay's many eggs. You have a duck that lay's 3 a day! Wait a year or 2 to see how this infects her health. And even after that; don't breed too heavy. Maybe it won't effect her in a year; but eventually it takes a toll after 6 years. That is more repairable with 10 offspring running around from her then 4000.
- Keep your groups mental health in mind. That's probably different then plants. Well; too many plants planted together is negative for the plants; that's the same; but I keep the most ugly duck ever around because she is a GREAT leader. She has a positive stable effect on the group; hence more happy ducks and healthier ducks. She will not be a biological mom though; but removing this "mom" of the group will leave a disbalance. The same goes for having personality variety; sometimes you can't keep the prettiest one because it is headstrong and you already have too many headstrong ones in the group; or too shy and you have too many shy ones in the group.
- Accept it costs you more money then you make of it

I don't think it is very different from plants with the right morality.

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

Another

 

[Trimurtisan]

@Loopeend thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time to write that out. Your right about it not being much different than plants. Well, seeds are much cheaper than birds most of the time, but the quoted part still applies.

- Accept it costs you more money then you make of it

Thanks again!