Ideas on a self-sustainable flock?

[black_dove2]

QUOTE="lazy gardener,

Araucana are rumpless, therefore have no tails. They lay blue eggs. They are rare and expensive b/c they carry a lethal gene.

What lethal Gene are you referring to?

 

[Mrs. K]

Black_Dove2 - Yes to the question is 40-50 too much? Really 50 birds could be a lot of work. Keep yourself in mind, and do not become a slave to the hobby. Less than a dozen hens will more than keep most of us in eggs. Freeze some eggs at the height of production to eke out the low producing months in December, I use my few fresh for eating, and bake with my frozen.

Most of us have been bitten with the chicken math "more is better" but it is better to take good care of a few, verses being a slave to many. All of the chores are less with a smaller group, the feed bill is less, the carrying water is less, the bedding and clean up is less. Granted the egg production is less too, but for me and mine, it is enough.

As long as you cull old birds, and add young birds you can get along quite well with a smaller flock.

Mrs K

 

[black_dove2]

Black_Dove2 - Yes to the question is 40-50 too much? Really 50 birds could be a lot of work. Keep yourself in mind, and do not become a slave to the hobby. Less than a dozen hens will more than keep most of us in eggs. Freeze some eggs at the height of production to eke out the low producing months in December, I use my few fresh for eating, and bake with my frozen.

Most of us have been bitten with the chicken math "more is better" but it is better to take good care of a few, verses being a slave to many. All of the chores are less with a smaller group, the feed bill is less, the carrying water is less, the bedding and clean up is less. Granted the egg production is less too, but for me and mine, it is enough.

As long as you cull old birds, and add young birds you can get along quite well with a smaller flock.

Mrs K

Thanks, I've been looking at adding 1 more in about a year, then another 18 months after that keeping my own personal max at 4 layers.

For all of you that have the more wherewithall then I do

Happy Holidays!!!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Is this for show birds?

Pretty much. Breed SOP is for show birds.

Originally there were chickens living wild, then man learned he could domesticate them. So he did. There were no breeds.

Over time man learned that by selective breeding he could create chickens that laid better, were better for meat, or were really decorative so man made chickens that laid better, were better for meat, or that had weird things on their heads, funny feathers, or just looked pretty. These were “types” that were raised for a specific purpose. Some of these types were called by names that would eventually become breeds but as of yet there were no breeds.

Then some people started arguing about who was better at raising chickens. I can raise chickens better than you can. No you can’t. Yes I can. No you can’t. Well, let’s have a contest and see whose chickens are best. But the person that was doing the judging needed criteria so they knew what to judge. So they agreed on the criteria, things like feather color and pattern, size, body conformation, posture, eye color, earlobe color, leg color, skin color, comb description, some even described the color of the bottom of their feet. Thus breeds were developed. What are now called breeds did not exist until there was a written SOP to describe what the breed should look like.

These criteria often mentioned things like egg shell color, egg size, or behavioral tendencies, things the judge does not see. Not all people that breed for show also breed for these traits but in my opinion they are part of what describes the breed.

Different countries have different requirements for a specific breed although they call then the same name. In France a Marans has to have feathered legs or it will be disqualified at a show. In the States a Marans can have clean legs and still win a prize. In the UK an Araucana looks quite a bit different than an Araucana in the States. Australia has adopted the UK description for an Araucana. Talking about breeds can be tricky when you cross international borders.

Some people do not accept that hatchery birds are representatives of their “breed” as practically all of them have something that would disqualify them at a show or at least prevent them from winning. Body conformation and size are very common problems but there certainly can be others.

So in my opinion breed is mostly about show birds. The show birds are the ones that represent what the breed is supposed to look like more than the hatchery birds or most of our backyard flocks. To me the people that also breed for the traits the judge does not see are the ones that have chickens that truly represent the breed. Occasionally you read in heritage chicken articles that there are only a few flocks in the US that have heritage birds of a certain breed, although many hatcheries offer these breeds and many breeders have prize winning birds of that breed. It’s the traits the judges don’t see that they are talking about when it comes to making a true heritage breed. Not everyone means the same thing when they call a chicken a certain breed.

 

[black_dove2]

Pretty much. Breed SOP is for show birds.

Originally there were chickens living wild, then man learned he could domesticate them. So he did. There were no breeds.

Over time man learned that by selective breeding he could create chickens that laid better, were better for meat, or were really decorative so man made chickens that laid better, were better for meat, or that had weird things on their heads, funny feathers, or just looked pretty. These were “types” that were raised for a specific purpose. Some of these types were called by names that would eventually become breeds but as of yet there were no breeds.

Then some people started arguing about who was better at raising chickens. I can raise chickens better than you can. No you can’t. Yes I can. No you can’t. Well, let’s have a contest and see whose chickens are best. But the person that was doing the judging needed criteria so they knew what to judge. So they agreed on the criteria, things like feather color and pattern, size, body conformation, posture, eye color, earlobe color, leg color, skin color, comb description, some even described the color of the bottom of their feet. Thus breeds were developed. What are now called breeds did not exist until there was a written SOP to describe what the breed should look like.

These criteria often mentioned things like egg shell color, egg size, or behavioral tendencies, things the judge does not see. Not all people that breed for show also breed for these traits but in my opinion they are part of what describes the breed.

Different countries have different requirements for a specific breed although they call then the same name. In France a Marans has to have feathered legs or it will be disqualified at a show. In the States a Marans can have clean legs and still win a prize. In the UK an Araucana looks quite a bit different than an Araucana in the States. Australia has adopted the UK description for an Araucana. Talking about breeds can be tricky when you cross international borders.

Some people do not accept that hatchery birds are representatives of their “breed” as practically all of them have something that would disqualify them at a show or at least prevent them from winning. Body conformation and size are very common problems but there certainly can be others.

So in my opinion breed is mostly about show birds. The show birds are the ones that represent what the breed is supposed to look like more than the hatchery birds or most of our backyard flocks. To me the people that also breed for the traits the judge does not see are the ones that have chickens that truly represent the breed. Occasionally you read in heritage chicken articles that there are only a few flocks in the US that have heritage birds of a certain breed, although many hatcheries offer these breeds and many breeders have prize winning birds of that breed. It’s the traits the judges don’t see that they are talking about when it comes to making a true heritage breed. Not everyone means the same thing when they call a chicken a certain breed.

Right just like showing dogs.

i know about breeds and showing.

was just wondering where the 'show' came in because the discussion was about breeding for laying/ dual purpose etc. Then taking into account region / temperate zone.

If you were talking about 'show' how does that make a difference when one is looking at self sustainability in a flock of dual purpose?

 

[Ridgerunner]

It does not, but strain does. Strain doesn't have to be about show. There can be strains of any dual purpose breed that are excellent at self sustainabilty. To me breed has nothing to do with it, strain does.

From what I see on this forum many people really get hung up on breed. They get a breed from one hatchery and seem to think every other chicken on the planet is just like that one. I've gotten the same breed form different hatcheries. There are some general breed tendencies if you get enough birds for averages to mean much but there are also differences from one hatchery to another. If you can find a strain that suits your goals you will be better off than a different strain of the same breed that does not.

 

[black_dove2]

It does not, but strain does. Strain doesn't have to be about show. There can be strains of any dual purpose breed that are excellent at self sustainabilty. To me breed has nothing to do with it, strain does.

From what I see on this forum many people really get hung up on breed. They get a breed from one hatchery and seem to think every other chicken on the planet is just like that one. I've gotten the same breed form different hatcheries. There are some general breed tendencies if you get enough birds for averages to mean much but there are also differences from one hatchery to another. If you can find a strain that suits your goals you will be better off than a different strain of the same breed that does not.

Understood, orchards like oranges are cut from same original tree that the flavor is desirable. So companies are able to produce uniformity of flavor in juice products.

Can't do that with a chicken but certain traits like egg size and amount can be passed down even though the hen may not have the color required for show

 

[ShrekDawg]

Right just like showing dogs.

i know about breeds and showing.

was just wondering where the 'show' came in because the discussion was about breeding for laying/ dual purpose etc. Then taking into account region / temperate zone.

If you were talking about 'show' how does that make a difference when one is looking at self sustainability in a flock of dual purpose?

I think the topic came about when the OP was asking what breeds her chickens were and asked if some of them were Araucanas like they were told or Easter Eggers and posted the pics so then we got sidetracked and I think that's where the SOP came in

 

[black_dove2]

I think the topic came about when the OP was asking what breeds her chickens were and asked if some of them were Araucanas like they were told or Easter Eggers and posted the pics so then we got sidetracked and I think that's where the SOP came in

Thanks!

I got a but confused well more than a bit, lol. Don't mind the off topic it does make for very interesting reading and I learned a lot new stuff bout chickies like I always do on BYC!

 

[ShrekDawg]

Thanks!

I got a but confused well more than a bit, lol. Don't mind the off topic it does make for very interesting reading and I learned a lot new stuff bout chickies like I always do on BYC!

It's okay! It can be hard to keep up and keep track sometimes! I know I'm on some threads, even just chatting ones, and you'll come back later and miss 30 or 50 posts lol it's great though but can definitely be hard to keep track

And yup, always something new to learn here!