Ideas on Rooster Sr and Jr skirmishes

[Lady of McCamley]

I have a 4 year old, senior Barnevelder rooster who is a sweetheart and who I value for his lovely terra cotta egg shell genes.

This last year, in July, I bred Barney to a lovely Cream Legbar to renew my olive eggers. I broody hatch, so my birds integrate into the main flock fairly easily. I kept one of those sons, who has a good temperament and conformation, as Barney is aging. This summer he will enter his 5th year.

I want this Junior (Fife) for his blue egg shell genes, coloring, and temperament. He is a lot like his daddy. I anticipate him being the main rooster for the flock of 14 hens for my egg color goals.

Barney, Sr., has been so sweet and faithful over the years, tending to the girls, to babes, watching for hawks and coons, that instead of freezer camp, I'd like to let him live his life peacefully through old age.

Poppa (Barney) and Junior (Fife) have co-existed relatively peacefully all winter, free ranging and roosting together, with minor skirmishes, until today. Fife is now 8 months old, and the hens have come back into full lay, and yes, there is now fighting.

Barney does not go in for the kill, so I have no worries about Fife. He hops and pecks and just stands as Fife runs away. Fife does not go in for the kill, so I don't think Barney will come to great harm, but obviously he is a young rooster and "hotter" tempered. Today Fife wasn't backing down. He kept coming back again and again after running away. They just kept at it off and on for several hours.

Perhaps a mistake, but I finally pulled Barney (since he was closest and I could catch him) and put him in with the broody hutch hens as both Barney and Fife had bloodied combs and Barney was panting a little. I had to be gone most of this afternoon, and didn't want to leave them going at it without observation.

I put Barney in with my bantams as he is a gentleman and wouldn't be rough with them (which some of my younger roosters have been in the past)....that's why Barney got the "time out" and not Fife.

Now what? I contemplated about just reintegrating Barney tomorrow night, then letting them finally fight it out for dominance. I've had Barney have some desired conjugal rights with the Cream Legbar hen I keep in that secluded coop (as it is more coon proof...why I am restarting my line again). Then I can put Barney back in at night into the main coop again and see what happens...but Fife is older and "hotter" now.

Any ideas?

At what point to you pull somebody? If need be, though unhappy at first, Barney could stay with the bantams. He is great with chicks.

Do you think they will likely work this out in time? How much is too much?

TIA
LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

@aart
@fisherlady

Any ideas?

 

[EggWalrus]

They're just gonna have to peck and kick it out. One will eventually submit to the other. There will be a little blood but they have to work it or for themselves. That, or Barney may have to take up residence in the banty coop.

 

[Meg-in-MT]

I don't know if this will be helpful or not...

I've got pair of "twins" in a coop that were mates in the brooder. Once or twice a year they get into a battle royale and someone is bleeding. Dripping blood, bleeding.

Neither has been severely injured or maimed. They fight and figure it out, I never intervene. I figure, in these cases, my best intentions can make things worse in the long run. So I let them do their thang.

 

[OhZark Biddies]

I have nothing new/ different to add... but the names Barney and Fife... are almost, but not quite, crystalline brilliance ... as far as roo names.

I’m no professional rooster name judge... so take it for what it’s not worth... but those names score 99.503 on my card.

Also, as a sub note... titling the post “Ideas”... is a bit brilliant too... it sets a tone of sharing info, and disinvites strong “let me set you straight” posts... note to self on this as much as anything maybe...

 

[centrarchid]

I have a 4 year old, senior Barnevelder rooster who is a sweetheart and who I value for his lovely terra cotta egg shell genes.

This last year, in July, I bred Barney to a lovely Cream Legbar to renew my olive eggers. I broody hatch, so my birds integrate into the main flock fairly easily. I kept one of those sons, who has a good temperament and conformation, as Barney is aging. This summer he will enter his 5th year.

I want this Junior (Fife) for his blue egg shell genes, coloring, and temperament. He is a lot like his daddy. I anticipate him being the main rooster for the flock of 14 hens for my egg color goals.

Barney, Sr., has been so sweet and faithful over the years, tending to the girls, to babes, watching for hawks and coons, that instead of freezer camp, I'd like to let him live his life peacefully through old age.

Poppa (Barney) and Junior (Fife) have co-existed relatively peacefully all winter, free ranging and roosting together, with minor skirmishes, until today. Fife is now 8 months old, and the hens have come back into full lay, and yes, there is now fighting.

Barney does not go in for the kill, so I have no worries about Fife. He hops and pecks and just stands as Fife runs away. Fife does not go in for the kill, so I don't think Barney will come to great harm, but obviously he is a young rooster and "hotter" tempered. Today Fife wasn't backing down. He kept coming back again and again after running away. They just kept at it off and on for several hours.

Perhaps a mistake, but I finally pulled Barney (since he was closest and I could catch him) and put him in with the broody hutch hens as both Barney and Fife had bloodied combs and Barney was panting a little. I had to be gone most of this afternoon, and didn't want to leave them going at it without observation.

I put Barney in with my bantams as he is a gentleman and wouldn't be rough with them (which some of my younger roosters have been in the past)....that's why Barney got the "time out" and not Fife.

Now what? I contemplated about just reintegrating Barney tomorrow night, then letting them finally fight it out for dominance. I've had Barney have some desired conjugal rights with the Cream Legbar hen I keep in that secluded coop (as it is more coon proof...why I am restarting my line again). Then I can put Barney back in at night into the main coop again and see what happens...but Fife is older and "hotter" now.

Any ideas?

At what point to you pull somebody? If need be, though unhappy at first, Barney could stay with the bantams. He is great with chicks.

Do you think they will likely work this out in time? How much is too much?

TIA
LofMc

With my older American Dominique roosters, I pen them separately from general flock and more often than not with very young chickens starting just past the chick phase of about 5 weeks. They can then serve also as backup in the event new breeders for some reason fall short of what is needed. My currently oldest cock is also about 5 years of age and he will do better with the stresses associated with breeding and defending his position in the flock.

 

[aart]

Well, I've never kept multiple males, but with your well written post...
.. I'd say leave Barney with the CCL to live in peace and make more OE's,
until you're sure Fife is carrying a blue egg gene.
...and the bantam pen is another resort.
Sounds like you've got a couple options other than letting them 'fight it out'.

 

[fisherlady]

We have been in this situation, and it can be stressful for us humans but with an integrated or more 'natural' flock approach it is to be expected to have birds of all ages, attitudes and ranks all within a flock. As others have mentioned, there are skirmishes and some upset attitudes once in a while but rarely anything worse than some bloodied combs when roosters have been brought up within the flock and you have selected to keep level headed personalities to begin with.
As the younger generation comes into their hormones they will almost always at some point try to establish dominance. It rarely works unless they happen to be a lot bigger than the senior roo, but it is almost as if they are showing off that they at least have the moxy to do it in hopes to impress a few of the girls. The senior roos (if they are gentlemen) put the youngsters in their place and then walk away and go about their business. The thing is a smart rooster seems to understand he needs a 'sergeant' or two to assist him in all the duties involved in a large flock. Our senior roos have always seemed to keep a helper who was able to help with guard duties in particular. The sergeant roo isn't usually allowed to mate the hens though unless he sneaks one in while the senior is busy somewhere else in the yard.
Often the sergeant roos will try to impress the younger girls in the hopes of establishing a mini harem of their own, and they seem very content if they get one or two pullets to hang around with them.... it is only when they try to gain the attention of senior hens, or the commander's favorite, that they again get into trouble....they just can't help the hormones....lol.
We allowed our to fight it out with minimal interference, and even the interference was more just us interrupting by yelling or pushing them apart with a foot if we were close and the squabble was disturbing snack time. But we tried to not change who was 'winning'... because the sooner the dominance issue was settled the sooner the flock was peaceful again.
It is hard to watch a senior roo losing his place, when our boy Grayson finally lost top spot to Gabby (who had been his sergeant for almost 5 years) it about broke my heart for him. But after the big battle the dust settled quickly and the flock resumed its normal routines very quickly and Grayson had 2 very faithful hens who would have nothing to do with Gabby so his ego was soothed a bit and Grayson assumed the sergeant duties without missing a beat.
Some roosters don't tolerate any other males in their flocks but in my experience most do when raised within the flock environment and fights can be intense but rarely fatal. One bird being exceptionally aggressive or bigger than the other will create a much higher risk though, so if that is the case then separate areas may need to be used for time outs or very close supervision will be needed for safety.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Update on Fife and Barney....

Well, I put Barney into the smaller broody hutch/coop/run with the Cream Legbar and 2 small bantam broodies. He is wonderful with them. One is his daughter with the bantam mille fleur Cochin. This pretty little daughter has gone broody for the first time (and acting very maternal...having 3 generations of brooding hens in her). She is now sitting on 3 eggs that are fresh from the Cream Legbar and Barney.

It was nice having Barney in the coop for breeding with the Cream Legbar so that when the CL finally came back into lay (she is a lazy one over winter), I'd be ready...timing was actually pretty perfect....CL was covered by Barney for about 2 weeks, laid 3 nice eggs, and then this banty mix went into a deep brood. (I think I may name her Aunt Bea..she looks like a short miniature Barnvelder with fluffy legs).

As to Barney and Fife....well they fought at the fence almost nonstop for about 3 days. Barney broke a spur off catching it on the netting and wire...which caused me to leave him in the broody pen to heal up rather than just an overnight stay to release back into free range with the rest.

Now, periodically Fife will check Barney out, who usually is ignoring Fife and tending to his flock in the pen. Today, however, I noticed Barney and Fife were butting chests through the wire again.

Other than some border skirmishes, which are getting much less frequent, I'm surprised at how well Barney adjusted to the small pen having been free ranged on about 1/4 acre most of his life. He seems quite content with his small harem in the smaller pen (it's actually just the right size for a breeding pen, broodies, and some small grow outs). He doesn't attempt to rush out when I open the gate to come inside to check feed and water. I think overall he's pretty happy.

So...Barney will be staying there fore the foreseeable future to make more olive eggers and to be a backup rooster.

Fife seems to be doing a decent job with the big hens. He calls them for food. He alerted for a hawk. I've not seen evidence of bullying or rough handling. We'll see how he does with babies in about a month. I've got girls going broody in the main coop, who should have been properly covered by Fife by now. We'll see if Fife is as much a sweetie with the chicks as his daddy Barney is.

So all in all...Chookberry RFD seems to be adjusting to the changes.

Thank you all for the advice.

LofMc

 

[OhZark Biddies]

Chookberry RFD

As I was reading your update I was somehow imagining two very Don Knotts looking roosters slap boxing at the fence