If I use Tylan will I ever be able to consume the eggs from those hens

[birdman326]

I know there has been a lot of talk about Tylan and consuming eggs after the hen has been treated with this product., I have read a lot of post and articles referring to this subject but I am still on the fence about using this product. So I guess I am asking if anyone on this forum have used Tylan with egg layers and still consumed the eggs after a period of time. If so what was your waiting time and how long as it been since you first used Tylan. I have not used the product yet but I think I have a respiratory infection going on with one of my rooster and I am afraid it will spread, it it hasn't already to my hens. Bottom line if I can't consume the eggs its almost pointless to keep these hens. Thoughts???

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Okay...what you are confusing is food safety vs. FDA approval vs. food philosophy.

Tylan (tylosin) used to be (prior to January 2017) a feed additive for laying hens with zero pull days.

However, since January 2017, the FDA has removed approval of pretty much all over the counter antibiotics in animals used for the food chain due to fears of creating super bugs resistant to antibiotics. Especially targeted were layers of eggs for human consumption.

That means you need a veterinarian script to get oral antibiotics for hens. (Currently injectable is still allowed and available on the shelves, but you would be administering it off script for laying hens).

If you are selling eggs, technically, then, you need a Vet script to be able to give the antibiotic to the hen, then you would need to follow the pull time suggested by the vet. Studies indicate tylosin clears the eggs after 8 days of administration. So you would administer and pull eggs, then put that animal back into production.

Usually a pull time is recommended of 10 to 14 days for most antibiotics to assure they have cleared the animal's system. The purpose is for residues left in eggs. It is more legal than necessarily inedible. The eggs are safe to eat, as in won't cause harm to humans, as tylosin is used in humans, and the amount you would get is very, very small. But there could be some residue in the eggs which sensitive individuals might react to or which might contribute to antibiotic resistance with overuse over time. (People consistently eating low levels of antibiotics.) Hence our new FDA rules.

If it is just your hens for your eggs, you can make the judgement call.

You can get injectable Tylan (tylosin), figure treatment dosage, and administer. You then can make the judgement call if the residue is safely passed, or eat the eggs immediately (however, I don't recommend eating eggs from a sick chicken).

After the pull time, again generally 10 to 14 days is considered ample, the eggs are clear, without residue, as the body as metabolized and excreted (through feces/urine) any leftover drug.

If you have organic concerns, then legally, if you ever treat an animal with non-approved organic methods (antibiotics/drugs), then you are never to use that animal for public food purpose again. Yes, it is a no man's land for the organic farmers as the government requires you to treat sick animals, however, if you do so, that animal may never again be used for organic food. (Generally organic farmers simply cull sick birds...it economically isn't feasible to keep them.)

So it now becomes farming and food philosophy and FDA approval that prevents you from ever eating the egg again after antibiotic treatment.

If however, you philosophically do not believe that your animal has to be pristine with never having an antibiotic used in its system, ever, and can tolerate a pull time, then treat the animal and continue to use eggs.

You could even sell to neighbors, since as a small holder you are not under FDA regulation (buyer beware kind of thing for farm direct), but you would have to call them "farm fresh" vs. "organic."

Hope that makes sense and appropriately answered your question.
LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

And, I supposed I should also do a follow up response about the philosophies of animal husbandry as your question is actually broader than Tylan effectiveness or safety.

Tylan is effective against many types of bacteria (but not particularly for gram-negative...eColi, Salmonella, etc.) It is considered a broad based spectrum antibiotic.

So, it is mostly effective, for most bacteria (but not all). If it is viral, it won't help (although birds commonly get secondary bacterial infections after viral ones).

I think the government has a point about antibiotic overuse, so it is sensible to get a culture or an expert opinion as to whether this illness is best treated with Tylan. However, many vets don't treat chickens, and many owners don't want vet expense for a chicken.

So now it comes to your purpose for your chickens.

If they are beloved pets, many owners take them to the vet and/or do as much as they can. Egg laying is secondary, and since they are not for public consumption, don't present a direct risk to public health with antibiotic residue.

If you are keeping chickens for the eggs, and have high organic standards, then treat with only with organic methods, culling any who do not respond.

If you desire long term sustainability, treat with good management/husbandry, over the counter products, and cull any that do not respond.

Generally it is better, unless the animals are pets, to not over treat as you literally continue to sustain and propagate the weaker birds such that your flock is spiraling downward. To that end goal, antibiotic use would be very infrequent as you would generally be better to simply cull the animal.

If you want to be effective medically, it is generally best to culture then treat, or use broad spectrum antibiotics in a responsible manner....meaning only when necessary.

Each poultry keeper must decide where they fall in the spectrum of poultry care philosophy.

LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

...and a final follow up to your actual illness situation....

Post on the Emergencies and Disease forum to get some feed back on the symptoms.

A lot of things can cause respiratory issues in birds, bacterial only being one of them.

LofMc

 

[Krazyquilts]

And, I supposed I should also do a follow up response about the philosophies of animal husbandry as your question is actually broader than Tylan effectiveness or safety.

Tylan is effective against many types of bacteria (but not particularly for gram-negative...eColi, Salmonella, etc.) It is considered a broad based spectrum antibiotic.

So, it is mostly effective, for most bacteria (but not all). If it is viral, it won't help (although birds commonly get secondary bacterial infections after viral ones).

I think the government has a point about antibiotic overuse, so it is sensible to get a culture or an expert opinion as to whether this illness is best treated with Tylan. However, many vets don't treat chickens, and many owners don't want vet expense for a chicken.

So now it comes to your purpose for your chickens.

If they are beloved pets, many owners take them to the vet and/or do as much as they can. Egg laying is secondary, and since they are not for public consumption, don't present a direct risk to public health with antibiotic residue.

If you are keeping chickens for the eggs, and have high organic standards, then treat with only with organic methods, culling any who do not respond.

If you desire long term sustainability, treat with good management/husbandry, over the counter products, and cull any that do not respond.

Generally it is better, unless the animals are pets, to not over treat as you literally continue to sustain and propagate the weaker birds such that your flock is spiraling downward. To that end goal, antibiotic use would be very infrequent as you would generally be better to simply cull the animal.

If you want to be effective medically, it is generally best to culture then treat, or use broad spectrum antibiotics in a responsible manner....meaning only when necessary.

Each poultry keeper must decide where they fall in the spectrum of poultry care philosophy.

LofMc

Wow, I just wanted to say how thought-out and well-written your two posts are, especially the last few paragraphs of your second post.

While we lived in town, we got ducks last year, and they are closer to pets than livestock. However my husband and I just bought a 50-acre farm and now have around 60-70 guineas, chickens, and turkeys as well and have been struggling to figure out how far one should go, ethically, medically, etc, to to treat them. Your two posts help address a lot of the stuff I've been feeling, so thank you.

 

[Lazy Farmer]

Okay...what you are confusing is food safety vs. FDA approval vs. food philosophy.

Tylan (tylosin) used to be (prior to January 2017) a feed additive for laying hens with zero pull days.

However, since January 2017, the FDA has removed approval of pretty much all over the counter antibiotics in animals used for the food chain due to fears of creating super bugs resistant to antibiotics. Especially targeted were layers of eggs for human consumption.

That means you need a veterinarian script to get oral antibiotics for hens. (Currently injectable is still allowed and available on the shelves, but you would be administering it off script for laying hens).

If you are selling eggs, technically, then, you need a Vet script to be able to give the antibiotic to the hen, then you would need to follow the pull time suggested by the vet. Studies indicate tylosin clears the eggs after 8 days of administration. So you would administer and pull eggs, then put that animal back into production.

Usually a pull time is recommended of 10 to 14 days for most antibiotics to assure they have cleared the animal's system. The purpose is for residues left in eggs. It is more legal than necessarily inedible. The eggs are safe to eat, as in won't cause harm to humans, as tylosin is used in humans, and the amount you would get is very, very small. But there could be some residue in the eggs which sensitive individuals might react to or which might contribute to antibiotic resistance with overuse over time. (People consistently eating low levels of antibiotics.) Hence our new FDA rules.

If it is just your hens for your eggs, you can make the judgement call.

You can get injectable Tylan (tylosin), figure treatment dosage, and administer. You then can make the judgement call if the residue is safely passed, or eat the eggs immediately (however, I don't recommend eating eggs from a sick chicken).

After the pull time, again generally 10 to 14 days is considered ample, the eggs are clear, without residue, as the body as metabolized and excreted (through feces/urine) any leftover drug.

If you have organic concerns, then legally, if you ever treat an animal with non-approved organic methods (antibiotics/drugs), then you are never to use that animal for public food purpose again. Yes, it is a no man's land for the organic farmers as the government requires you to treat sick animals, however, if you do so, that animal may never again be used for organic food. (Generally organic farmers simply cull sick birds...it economically isn't feasible to keep them.)

So it now becomes farming and food philosophy and FDA approval that prevents you from ever eating the egg again after antibiotic treatment.

If however, you philosophically do not believe that your animal has to be pristine with never having an antibiotic used in its system, ever, and can tolerate a pull time, then treat the animal and continue to use eggs.

You could even sell to neighbors, since as a small holder you are not under FDA regulation (buyer beware kind of thing for farm direct), but you would have to call them "farm fresh" vs. "organic."

Hope that makes sense and appropriately answered your question.
LofMc

​

 

[Lazy Farmer]

Wow, I just wanted to say how thought-out and well-written your two posts are, especially the last few paragraphs of your second post.

THAT IS WHY I STAY HERE ON BYC...

 

[Lady of McCamley]

@Krazyquilts

You are so welcome. I am a hobbyist, but my grandmother owned a chicken farm, and my daughter and SIL are organic farmers for market. (I should also add my daughter became a vet tech, and we used my flock for some of her studies).

So these are questions I too have had to address, especially having been a paralegal, I have concerns over liabilities when I sell eggs.

I'm glad it was of some help to you.

LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

...and good luck to your new endeavor!

Oh Lord...give me some land...but then I'd have to take care of it
LofMc

 

[Lazy Farmer]

@Krazyquilts

You are so welcome. I am a hobbyist, but my grandmother owned a chicken farm, and my daughter and SIL are organic farmers for market. (I should also add my daughter became a vet tech, and we used my flock for some of her studies).

So these are questions I too have had to address, especially having been a paralegal, I have concerns over liabilities when I sell eggs.

I'm glad it was of some help to you.

LofMc

Awesome...
Lady of McCamley