If you did not trust banks, what would you do with your money?

[Capvin]

For me, Jerry Robinson and the FTM Daily are not reliable sources of financial information.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

any body know about petrodollars?

http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system/

http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-part-2/

http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system-part-3/

Dont know the man an thats the first I have read from him but just off that bit, he seems to know what he is talking about. Was not really anything big I disagreed with. Well worth reading ether way.


The US dollar is not money with a set worth(any more anyway), it is a tradable commodity. Just like every other tradable commodity its worth is based on how much one person has compared to how much they need compared to how much others have an how much they need. For many years other countries want more US$ than they have. It is taken an useable almost everywhere. It is also needed to buy oil as that man talks about. It is also used as a storage of wealth like gold is. People are happy to trade us all kinds of things for US$. Walmart is full of things that were traded to walmart by other countries for US$. Those countries trade those US$ for other things, sometimes with us, sometimes inside their country an sometimes with other countries. Our buying power is keyed to the fact that there is a demand for the US dollar an only so much supply.

Supply has caught up with demand. People still want an need the US$ but there is plenty of it floating around. Sure everyone wants more but generally, everyone knows there is enough to go around. That is what inflation is. Its when supply of money is gets higher an people respond by wanting more or it for their products. Now assume the faith in the US$ drops an people "send it back home." They dont just give it back to us. What they do is trade it for stuff. Maybe to us for products we make or maybe to others for products they make. The result starts as a boom. Money is moving an products are moving. More jobs are created. Just like with stocks, movement is good till people see that more people are selling dollars than are buying dollars. Once that happens the dollar starts looking less useful to the ones that are taking dollars for their products. So they start trying to off load their dollars too. Eventually their is way less demand for the dollar so it takes way more of it to trade for other items. Not a big deal if you are one of the first to literally cash out. If you have items an no dollars you are in good shape. If you have dollars an no items then its a different story.

Other countries getting out of the dollar by trading it back to us for items sounds great. More jobs an more money. If everyone in the country becomes twice as rich as they are now (supply goes up). Demand on the other hand never goes up cause supply went up, it usually goes down by as much as supply went up. If demand goes down as much as supply goes up then you net 0 gains. The extra you made did not better your self in the long run. Sense supply is high now an demand is just ok, if demand goes down over seas an the US$ starts getting "sent back home" supply will go up past what demand can sustain here. The US$ will become worthless just like every other fiat currency that came before it. Being as the US people are the number 1 holders of the US$, they will feel it the worst, followed by other countries that have large holdings of US$.

Fiat currency like the US$ is a investment just like buying stock in walmart. It can rise an it can fall. Never forget that.

The US$ has fallen for years consistently an is falling faster every year. If walmart stock had the record the US$ has now, would you be buying now or selling?

 

[hemet dennis]

Dont know the man an thats the first I have read from him but just off that bit, he seems to know what he is talking about. Was not really anything big I disagreed with. Well worth reading ether way.


The US dollar is not money with a set worth(any more anyway), it is a tradable commodity. Just like every other tradable commodity its worth is based on how much one person has compared to how much they need compared to how much others have an how much they need. For many years other countries want more US$ than they have. It is taken an useable almost everywhere. It is also needed to buy oil as that man talks about. It is also used as a storage of wealth like gold is. People are happy to trade us all kinds of things for US$. Walmart is full of things that were traded to walmart by other countries for US$. Those countries trade those US$ for other things, sometimes with us, sometimes inside their country an sometimes with other countries. Our buying power is keyed to the fact that there is a demand for the US dollar an only so much supply.

Supply has caught up with demand. People still want an need the US$ but there is plenty of it floating around. Sure everyone wants more but generally, everyone knows there is enough to go around. That is what inflation is. Its when supply of money is gets higher an people respond by wanting more or it for their products. Now assume the faith in the US$ drops an people "send it back home." They dont just give it back to us. What they do is trade it for stuff. Maybe to us for products we make or maybe to others for products they make. The result starts as a boom. Money is moving an products are moving. More jobs are created. Just like with stocks, movement is good till people see that more people are selling dollars than are buying dollars. Once that happens the dollar starts looking less useful to the ones that are taking dollars for their products. So they start trying to off load their dollars too. Eventually their is way less demand for the dollar so it takes way more of it to trade for other items. Not a big deal if you are one of the first to literally cash out. If you have items an no dollars you are in good shape. If you have dollars an no items then its a different story.

Other countries getting out of the dollar by trading it back to us for items sounds great. More jobs an more money. If everyone in the country becomes twice as rich as they are now (supply goes up). Demand on the other hand never goes up cause supply went up, it usually goes down by as much as supply went up. If demand goes down as much as supply goes up then you net 0 gains. The extra you made did not better your self in the long run. Sense supply is high now an demand is just ok, if demand goes down over seas an the US$ starts getting "sent back home" supply will go up past what demand can sustain here. The US$ will become worthless just like every other fiat currency that came before it. Being as the US people are the number 1 holders of the US$, they will feel it the worst, followed by other countries that have large holdings of US$.

Fiat currency like the US$ is a investment just like buying stock in walmart. It can rise an it can fall. Never forget that.

The US$ has fallen for years consistently an is falling faster every year. If walmart stock had the record the US$ has now, would you be buying now or selling?

Well you didn't mention that when the dollars get sent home and create jobs it takes people off the government. They then start paying taxes then the government stops selling bonds. And starts paying it's debts. Do you know what happens to the money payed to the FED for their T-bills ? It goes back to not being, it's gone, it's no longer in the money supply. Most people that have government bonds go buy more when their bond expire. But the government will not be issuing as many if any so they will need to buy them on the open market. And the FED will sell so that more dollars come out of the dollar supply. It will also raise the value of U.S. bonds due to the lower supply. But the only way to get them is with dollars so now we have a higher demand for dollars. And a higher demand makes the value of the dollar go up. This is the part that all the dollar will collapse people leave out BECAUSE most of them are trying to sell you something (gold, silver, ect.)

I wish that others countries would start sending dollars back here for goods and services so it would create jobs because those jobs will create even more jobs. And I really wish people would buy more stuff made here instead of stuff from other countries.

When you buy something made in other countries you put an American out of work and put a worker in another country to work.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

I hate to tell you but the government has no intention of cutting spending. They are not going to stop printing money an they are not going to stop selling bonds. There fix for every financial issue is to print more, barrow more an spend more. Anyone remember 2008... Sure I hope they wise up but I am not betting on it. I will bet on the numbers an history, not my hopes.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/


I do agree that a lot of people are trying to sell you gold, but dont forget that the government is also trying to sell you US$ too. That goes both ways.

For the record, I have very little of ether gold, silver or cash. Most of my net worth is invested in my land. What is left is invested in livestock, food an ammo. Unfortunately my net worth does not = a lot of any of that. So I am not trying to sell anyone anything other than to be informed as best they can, an to form there own opinion.

 

[CluckyCharms]

The original question this thread presented was "If you did not trust banks, what would you do with your money?" so I'm answering that bit:

- we don't use banks

 

[chickened]

I hate to tell you but the government has no intention of cutting spending. They are not going to stop printing money an they are not going to stop selling bonds. There fix for every financial issue is to print more, barrow more an spend more. Anyone remember 2008... Sure I hope they wise up but I am not betting on it. I will bet on the numbers an history, not my hopes.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/


I do agree that a lot of people are trying to sell you gold, but dont forget that the government is also trying to sell you US$ too. That goes both ways.

For the record, I have very little of ether gold, silver or cash. Most of my net worth is invested in my land. What is left is invested in livestock, food an ammo. Unfortunately my net worth does not = a lot of any of that. So I am not trying to sell anyone anything other than to be informed as best they can, an to form there own opinion.

Bingo! This is why our economy has not fallen flat on its face. We simply print more making it worth less.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Bingo! This is why our economy has not fallen flat on its face. We simply print more making it worth less.

Yep, an it works pretty well at making the masses feel better for a few years an an we get away with kicking the can down the road. Question is, how long will it keep working an when it stops, will it be to late to dig out of this hole?

 

[chickened]

The problem comes when China comes a knockin' wanting something other than more dollars. Some countries have petitioned the WTO (?) to be able to trade in another currency than the dollar for oil which if I am not mistaken is the only commodity traded globally in the US$.

I think under the right leadership the US can pull itself out of this financial hole but we need to get our house in order and quit writing checks we cannot cash and live within our means and quit transferring wealth to other countries.

 

[catdaddyfro]

The problem comes when China comes a knockin' wanting something other than more dollars. Some countries have petitioned the WTO (?) to be able to trade in another currency than the dollar for oil which if I am not mistaken is the only commodity traded globally in the US$.

I think under the right leadership the US can pull itself out of this financial hole but we need to get our house in order and quit writing checks we cannot cash and live within our means and quit transferring wealth to other countries.

Yeah and if all you got to offer to pay the debt is your LAND they will surely accept that and kick you out on your @$$, then what, huh? everbody better think about it!

Jeff

 

[DennisK]

Currency, gold, silver, diamonds and jewels; you can’t eat any of them, you can’t cover your body with them to keep warm and you can’t use them as shelter. But through some mysterious transformation, called Finance, they can make all of these necessities come to be. My greatest asset is time. I have only a set amount of time given to me – I cannot grow more time, yet I have spent my whole adult life trading my time for currency. That currency, I take to the bank and I give it to them for safe keeping – little bits and pieces of my time – my life; as if I can grow more of my life.
I was born during the 40’s. My favorite people were my great grandparents, Roy and Lily. Roy went to work each day and Lily stayed home. They lived in a beautiful house, they always seemed to have time for their family, and I especially remember a wonderful sense of grace in their lives. What I find astounding is that Roy’s work was that of a door to door salesman for Watken’s Products – that’s it, a door to door salesman! Through my whole life, I have never been able to equal the grace that my grandparents were able to have. I worked hard; sometimes pulling 24 hour shifts, and frequently feeling as though I was treading water 3 feet under. All around me, I saw folks my age working with the same sense of panic – both husband and wife holding currency producing jobs, sometimes each taking on more than one job – all just to make ends meet. Life seems to be wound tighter and tighter. I thought, then, that something had to brake simply based on what I saw around me. Banks, government and many institutions have become more parasitic in nature. I don’t understand national or global finance, and I can’t explain why life for most of us seems to have gotten cheaper. All I know is that it has been a long time coming.