Illinois...

[cavemanrich]

@Faraday40
I know you are into 4H as well as the hatchings you do at various schools near you. Wanted your opinion on some things that trouble my mind slightly.
Article is from University Of Illinois "Incubation and Embryology" You are most likely familiar with this. Here is a kwik link,,,,, http://extension.illinois.edu/eggs/things-46.html

Here is a cut and paste of the minor issue.

• Candle eggs each day during incubation beginning at Day 3.
• Break out one egg on the third, sixth, ninth, twelfth, fifteenth and eighteenth days.
• Observe and discuss the changes you see in the broken- out embryos.
• Discuss the major changes you see and decide which changes are most vital.

This is intended for students in 4th to 6th grade level.
I would not be very thrilled with my children or grandchildren doing this.
Am I toooooo squishy soft. (comparing to a marshmallow already roasted in campfire VS a marshmallow still in the plastic bag.???)
The thing that troubles me slightly is above in RED , to break a LIVING EGG. I know what hatcheries do day one sexing chicks.
I accept everything on earth is for mankind's use. I eat meat. Chickens are raised to feed us with eggs and meat. I accept that. Somehow breaking that embryo troubles me slightly.

 

[Molpet]

@Faraday40
I know you are into 4H as well as the hatchings you do at various schools near you. Wanted your opinion on some things that trouble my mind slightly.
Article is from University Of Illinois "Incubation and Embryology" You are most likely familiar with this. Here is a kwik link,,,,, http://extension.illinois.edu/eggs/things-46.html

Here is a cut and paste of the minor issue.

• Candle eggs each day during incubation beginning at Day 3.
• Break out one egg on the third, sixth, ninth, twelfth, fifteenth and eighteenth days.
• Observe and discuss the changes you see in the broken- out embryos.
• Discuss the major changes you see and decide which changes are most vital.

This is intended for students in 4th to 6th grade level.
I would not be very thrilled with my children or grandchildren doing this.
Am I toooooo squishy soft. (comparing to a marshmallow already roasted in campfire VS a marshmallow still in the plastic bag.???)
The thing that troubles me slightly is above in RED , to break a LIVING EGG. I know what hatcheries do day one sexing chicks.
I accept everything on earth is for mankind's use. I eat meat. Chickens are raised to feed us with eggs and meat. I accept that. Somehow breaking that embryo troubles me slightly.

umm I wouldn't want to do this but I can see the merits of learning the stages.
It looks like this is for 4H so they would be kids/parents that may have a different mindset than chickens are pets...
It sure would cut down on
Disposing of Chicks
http://extension.illinois.edu/eggs/res31-disposing.html
has anyone heard of the last line in this link:
In Illinois, the Humane Care for Animals Act makes it illegal to keep a live chick or duck as a pet.

I wouldn't want to keep a dead one as a pet

 

[Faraday40]

@Faraday40
I know you are into 4H as well as the hatchings you do at various schools near you. Wanted your opinion on some things that trouble my mind slightly.
Article is from University Of Illinois "Incubation and Embryology" You are most likely familiar with this. Here is a kwik link,,,,, http://extension.illinois.edu/eggs/things-46.html

Here is a cut and paste of the minor issue.

• Candle eggs each day during incubation beginning at Day 3.
• Break out one egg on the third, sixth, ninth, twelfth, fifteenth and eighteenth days.
• Observe and discuss the changes you see in the broken- out embryos.
• Discuss the major changes you see and decide which changes are most vital.

This is intended for students in 4th to 6th grade level.
I would not be very thrilled with my children or grandchildren doing this.
Am I toooooo squishy soft. (comparing to a marshmallow already roasted in campfire VS a marshmallow still in the plastic bag.???)
The thing that troubles me slightly is above in RED , to break a LIVING EGG. I know what hatcheries do day one sexing chicks.
I accept everything on earth is for mankind's use. I eat meat. Chickens are raised to feed us with eggs and meat. I accept that. Somehow breaking that embryo troubles me slightly.

You're not wrong to feel that way.

Honestly I've never done that in all my years of incubation. IMO -There's no point. Right now I'm incubating a fertility test. (Yep, some of Oopsie's & Jewel's eggs found their way into the incubator.) I suppose some people would candle & toss the eggs around 7-10days after calculating the fertility rate. I can't do that either & let them stay for all 21+ days. Things work out & I'm always able to find homes for the 100s of chicks we hatch. Most of the time I can even find some one on a farm willing to take free male chicks for later processing. If chicks are still here after 4-5 weeks, I just hold on to them for a little longer & do it myself. (It's very hard, but at least I know they lived a good but short life here where they were loved, cared for, and able to free range.)

The 4H project books are loaded with tons of activities. They're meant to be a source of ideas and not meant for all of them to be fully completed. I know a couple teachers who have done the plastic wrap window-egg. That's another one I don't do because at some point that developing embryo will die.... and all the kids will realize it.

People have diff sensitivities and for some an egg is an embryo and considered just a bunch of living cells. Others see it as chick killing, and some people can never eat chicken again. I avoid all that debate and stick to the goal of the lesson. Candling allows us to see the living, moving embryo, and there are many excellent teaching aids like posters & even 3D egg models that show the details of embryo development. There's no reason to crack it open.

I'm the same way with dissections. I'm glad that the specimens are no longer wild caught, but all the virtual reality simulations and frog anatomy models available would suffice for the middle school level. I believe those who may be interested in medicine need to have some real hands on dissection experience before heading off to college, but there's really no need for everyone to do middle school dissections.(learn basic human anatomy = Yes, important; dissect a chemical soaked frog = No, not very important. What I always run into is that parents see it as some right of passage and fight to keep it in the curriculum. Those virtual dissections and expensive models are only used by a handful of students whose parents object.

So that's my 2cents.

 

[Faraday40]

umm I wouldn't want to do this but I can see the merits of learning the stages.
It looks like this is for 4H so they would be kids/parents that may have a different mindset than chickens are pets...
It sure would cut down on
Disposing of Chicks
http://extension.illinois.edu/eggs/res31-disposing.html
has anyone heard of the last line in this link:
In Illinois, the Humane Care for Animals Act makes it illegal to keep a live chick or duck as a pet.

I wouldn't want to keep a dead one as a pet

LOL yes, dead chicks would make horrible pets.

The idea is to prevent sending chicks home with students and unknowing parents where they will be mauled, fed poor nutrition, and eventually die.

 

[Molpet]

LOL yes, dead chicks would make horrible pets.

The idea is to prevent sending chicks home with students and unknowing parents where they will be mauled, fed poor nutrition, and eventually die.

yes In school we ran experiments injecting hormone in chicks and recording the results...basically the pullets were injected w/testerone and cockerels w/progesterone and they took on comb and feather characteristics of the other sex.. pullets did lay though.
at the end they ask who could take them.. of course i took home 20+ that they couldn't find homes for .. put them in a falling down open air coop (12x20 ish) that was full of stuff... great grandparents never had a way to secure it..must have relied on dogs...but the forest preserve next door had been logged so not as many predators.
by winter the predators had gotten them..

 

[Faraday40]

I often have kids (and sometimes even parents) in my classes asking if they can bring home the chicks we hatch. Once I explain that they need a coop, run, feed, feeders, waterers, and license from the town..... and then discuss how much those things might cost, they suddenly lose interest in asking for chicks. The kids can hold them and the parents take lots of precious pics, and that's pretty much all they really wanted anyway. Sending a helpless chick home to certain death is just wrong.

My neighbors told me that it used to be common practice to sell "Easter chicks" as a temp disposable pets. Kids would carry them around all day & they'd stay in a little box near the stove to stay warm. Many families were poor, so chicks just got table scraps. If they actually lived long enough, the chicks were thrown outside & hopefully found shelter.

 

[cavemanrich]

My neighbors told me that it used to be common practice to sell "Easter chicks" as a temp disposable pets.

That is probably why Farm & Fleet will not sell you less than 6 chicks.

 

[Molpet]

chicks and ducklings dyed colors were common at Easter when i was a little kid.. we didn't get any, but I doubt if 1 chick by itself lasted too long

 

[cavemanrich]

Many things were common back then. Remember when I disclosed the secret about the dancing chickens in times past... Funny but sad.

 

[Faraday40]

Sad news of the day:
I got home from a biopsy (you'd think that would have been the worst part of my day)
and went out to the coop. I found Princess Lay-a inside the coop & she had a touch of blood on her head & beak. I gently picked her up & saw some additional scratches on one side.....and then a large flap of skin/feathers was open to show several fatty bodies, neck muscle & an exposed crop. UGH! Surprisingly over 1/3 of the skin around her hackle area was ripped off and hanging. She was still alive. I know it's very difficult to stitch up such a large area (several inches) and that chicken skin tears easily. Then there's the battle of infection. I looked at it logically. My sweet hen layed like a champ but would be 6 yrs old this summer. She was in shock & I need to take care of myself right now. It was too hard for me to process Princess by myself, so I called my handyman. Princess has always been the top hen, best producer, and an all around good chicken. She foraged well, went broody once a year in June, was a fierce mother or could also be broken easily. She wasn't constantly underfoot like a silkie or in need of constant treats & snuggles like the orps, or overly vocal like the Sebright & Sussex. She did not do tricks, was not the most beautiful nor the center of attention. She was not even a purebred, but she was always part of our flock from the beginning and was a great bird. She liked to greet me for a brief pet to say hello & then went about her day.

As I type this, the egg she laid this morning is sitting on the desk in front of me.
RIP my dear old friend.